Why do I have high fuel pressure... - Page 3

steve meltzer · #1 (**permalink**) 03-07-2017, 07:47 PM

OK, i'm all set. just need some time, always a precious commodity. s

Texasdoc · #2 (**permalink**) 03-21-2017, 01:31 PM

You need to measure the distance from your mounting plate to the front edge of your flywheel teeth. The long end if some dial calipers are great for this. It needs to be within 1/16" of spec, depending on your motor and starter model. If you're distance is under spec, you as the shim.

I'm a Family Practice doc in Ft. Worth.

Edit: Here are the instructions for your starter: http://www.powermastermotorsports.co...ockingInst.pdf

steve meltzer · #3 (**permalink**) 03-21-2017, 01:34 PM

OK, thanx so much. steve

patrickt · #4 (**permalink**) 03-21-2017, 01:42 PM

Peeking in and looking at the flywheel teeth will also tip you off as to how they are engaging. Here's the Ford Shop Manual, circa 1966, page on gear engagement that I had copied for someone who had a similar problem a few years ago. From those pics you posted, you kinda look like the "small wear pattern."

Texasdoc · #5 (**permalink**) 03-21-2017, 02:05 PM

It does look like the small wear pattern, but as far as I know, there is no adjustment for that. That is dependent upon the relationship between your flywheel and the starter mounting location. As far a the SBFs, those are set by the bell housing and engine plate and are fixed in location. I don't know if they make offset bolts to correct that or not (kinda like how you would center a bell housing to the crank with offset dowels).

Just guessing here and maybe someone else will chime in with the right answer, but you can ask PowerMaster if they have a slightly larger drive gear to increase gear mesh/engagement...???

Edit: Doing a little research - it looks like the FE's used different size flywheels for different blocks. You should count the number of teeth your flywheel has to be sure. Since you have the starter off, mark one tooth with liquid paper (White-out) and slowly rotate the motor with a wrench on the crank bolt. Count the teeth until you get back to your mark. That way you know for sure.

Here is a link (Clicky) from ffcars forum that talks about BBF starters/flywheels/bell housings. I don't know if the difference is just the size of the mounting plate, bolt hole locations, or depth of the drive gear. Check yours to make sure you have the right one. Also, you do have the motor plate installed between the block and the bell housing, right?

patrickt · #6 (**permalink**) 03-21-2017, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texasdoc

Just guessing here and maybe someone else will chime in with the right answer, but you can ask PowerMaster if they have a slightly larger drive gear to increase gear mesh/engagement...???

If you find the wear pattern is unacceptable, and you find that it's not adjustable somehow, and PowerMaster won't help you, then I would contact Robb Mc -- his starter gets very high ratings over on the FordFE forum and he will make you a custom drive gear that fits perfectly with your tolerances. I only know that though from reading years of posts over on the FE forum; no personal experience. Although i do use Erson roller rockers, which he designed. Here's his site if you decide to go that way:
Welcome to RobbMc Performance Products

olddog · #7 (**permalink**) 08-27-2017, 07:49 AM

The engine is sitting on two mounts. I would assume you had to set something under the back of the engine to support it, when you removed the transmission and bell housing. If you start the engine, you have to make sure that whatever is holding the back end of the engine, doesn't flip out from the movement. Without the transmission and mounts attached, I expect things will be free to move more than normal.

Go to the trouble of centering with a dial indicator. If it is spot on, your done. If not, good thing you checked.

steve meltzer · #8 (**permalink**) 08-27-2017, 08:21 AM

The car is on a 4 post lift, but other than the engine mounts, there is no other support. I have both tall and regular jack stands and could add some support to the middle. thanx. s

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 08-27-2017, 10:24 AM

We used to start cars with no transmission in them. I don't see a problem with that. The two motor mounts and, usually, a bottle jack under the back of the engine was all we ever used. Of course, be extremely careful when you start peeking at the moving parts.

Regarding starter motor measurements, the only thing I have is the Ford Shop Manuals that show correct, and incorrect, teeth markings between the starter motor and the flywheel. Unfortunately (or, fortunately, depending on how you look at it), I have never had a starter motor alignment issue on any car, ever. Datsuns to Fords, they've always just lined right up and I never had a problem.

Now, when it comes to aligning your bellhousing, I think you have to treat it as though it is completely unknown. Install it as if it were a permanent, and then put your dial gauge on it and see what the run out is. Usually, when it's done properly once, you don't have to screw with it again. But in your case, you have to double check everything with a jaundice eye as to how it was originally set up. (medical joke there, get it?)

steve meltzer · #10 (**permalink**) 08-27-2017, 12:57 PM

thanx for the info. So, before I start checking the alignment of the bell housing, i should run a set of liver function tests? thanx steve

patrickt · #11 (**permalink**) 08-27-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

So, before I start checking the alignment of the bell housing, i should run a set of liver function tests?

... yep, with onions too please.

steve meltzer · #12 (**permalink**) 08-31-2017, 07:54 PM

OK, I did just that experiment this weekend despite the flood! put paint on the pinion gear and dc'd the ignition wire to the coil. Here' s picture if the website will cooperate. The guy at Powermaster said it was ok, but to add a shim between the block and the starter. With a fully charged battery connected to the car's battery leads, the car cranked weakly, but not enough to start. Felt like a weak battery, so I used another tested and proven battery iwth same result. Won't crank enough to start. Took the starter off to go back to the guy who put the new pinion gear on and he thought the paint marks were way off and wanted to look at the starter in more detail, but now, he's swamped (pardon the pun) with flood cars from Harvey. not sure the pictures will show. thanx s

patrickt · #13 (**permalink**) 08-31-2017, 08:02 PM

Well, that looks pretty good to me.

steve meltzer · #14 (**permalink**) 08-31-2017, 08:09 PM

and why won't it crank? did with same stuff before all of this. ?? redherring= bad battery?? s

patrickt · #15 (**permalink**) 08-31-2017, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

and why won't it crank? did with same stuff before all of this. ?? redherring= bad battery?? s

If the engine can turn freely (and we'll just assume it can), and the starter motor is good, and installed correctly, then the only things it can possibly be are 1) bad/low battery; 2) bad cables or bad connections; or 3) bad starter solenoid. A voltage drop test will finger #2 and #3 in short order.

cdnus · #16 (**permalink**) 08-31-2017, 09:14 PM

Do you have a starter or firewall mounted solenoid?

Gaz64 · #17 (**permalink**) 08-31-2017, 11:35 PM

How much gap between the pinion and the ring gear while not engaged?

Why does the manufacturer want to add a shim?

Doesn't look like going back enough for me.

Mesh doesn't look deep enough either.

Can you give some more photos, straight on with the pinion, and at 90 degrees?

Gary

patrickt · #18 (**permalink**) 09-01-2017, 06:10 AM

I posted the Ford mesh pattern from the Shop Manual back on Page 5 of this thread. But, FWIW, the MSD APS starter instructions for the Ford FE call for:

INSPECT PINION GEAR
After cranking the engine several times, you can inspect
the witness pattern on the pinion gear. The pattern should
show 1/4" to 3/8". If over, the internal shim is required.

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInst...1/121-5093.pdf

steve meltzer · #19 (**permalink**) 09-01-2017, 01:29 PM

OK, I made an error in saying that the battery lead goes to VR. Of course it goes to the firewall mounted solenoid. With the starter at rest the pinion gear is proud to the flywheel, right? The starter is at the shop at the moment, so I don't have the pictures requested. But judging by the witness marks, it's really OK, so I don't really understand why the Powermaster guy wanted me to put in a shim between the starter and the block. I'm having a hard time visualizing this, but such a shim would move the pinion gear deeper into the flywheel's teeth, right? I do believe that the distance between the front of the backing/flex plate and the forward most part of the flywheel's teeth, is 0.6 inches, as I recall. s

patrickt · #20 (**permalink**) 09-01-2017, 01:37 PM

It looks good enough for me.

I say button it all up and, if won't turn the engine, do a voltage drop test on both the positive side and the negative side of the circuit. I've seen starter solenoids like ours rob a nice bit of current from the starter motor. Dodgy cables and connectors, too.