No spark

ken swart · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2010, 09:05 PM

My Spf with sbf has MSD 6AL Ignition, the blue blaster II coil, and MSD Pro-Billet small diameter distributor, and no spark.
Setup is a few years old but not used much, I fired it up about 2 weeks ago, ran for a few seconds and stopped. would not fire up again.
Tried again today and nothing.
Any insight is very much appreciated.
Ken

Barnsnake · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2010, 09:42 PM

This should help you determine if it is the box or the trigger.

http://www.msdignition.com/page.aspx?id=3206

RICK LAKE · #3 (**permalink**) 06-06-2010, 04:35 AM

Ken Swart Ken Since the car ran a couple of weeks ago and stalled, start here.
Pull the cap and check for a center electrode in the center of the car, make sure it's there. Check the rotor for any burnt hole or loose pin on the cap. I would replace both any way. Make sure the rotor plate makes contact with the probe from the cap.
A quick check is to also make sure the rotor spins when the motor is cranked. Pull the coil wire before doing this.
You have fuel pressure and if you move the carb lever you can see fuel go into the motor. AGAIN have no spark when doing this. If this checks out get a test light and make sure you have a good power and ground to both MSD box and coil. I am not sure what a blue MSD coil is but some of the coils are not meant for street driving applications. They burnt up internally. Here's a start, if this testing doesn't show any thing. he can start with MSD trouble tree. Rick L. Ps do a new cap and rotor first. You may have to change the spark plugs if they are wet or gas fouled.

undy · #4 (**permalink**) 06-06-2010, 04:59 AM

The MSD magnetic trigger seems to be the "failure of choice" stopping any spark. There's a very simple test to check listed on MSD's web site. I've lost one of the triggers on my like setup too.

Don't start buying ANY parts untill you do the proper troubleshooting.

ken swart · #5 (**permalink**) 06-06-2010, 08:26 AM

Thanks guys, I'll investigate and let you know what happens.
Ken

ken swart · #6 (**permalink**) 06-08-2010, 07:44 PM

The rotor does not spin. And I failed to mention, when it wasn't firing it also wasn't showing oil pressure.
Now what?

FWB · #7 (**permalink**) 06-08-2010, 07:49 PM

the distributor gear pin sheared off or the gear is wiped out. if the pin sheared it is due to the oil pump seizing from picking up debris.

pull the distributor see what failed, try to spin the oil pump shaft, if you can't spin it with a socket then its oil pump time....

ken swart · #8 (**permalink**) 06-08-2010, 08:31 PM

There are only a few hundred miles on it, not even broken in yet.
Any other possibilities?

FWB · #9 (**permalink**) 06-08-2010, 08:34 PM

um, rotor not spinning.......no, pull the distributor....there is the possibility the pin failed and the pump is fine. but it is the gear or the pin....

the oil pump is driven by the gear.....the pins are made to shear if there is an issue with the pump

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 04:27 AM

Ken, out of curiosity, what was your oil pressure looking like before this happened? And what weight oil were you running?

ken swart · #11 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 09:04 PM

Patrick, pressure has always been good, usually around 30 to 60 pounds, and for now I'm using Quaker State 10 w 40. One of these days I'll start putting some miles on this this thing.
Anyway if you have a better choice, I'm listening.
But it turns out, I have a PLASTIC (or polymer or whatever) distributor gear, and a few of the teeth sheared off. Imagine the teeth shearing off a plastic gear that is driven by a steel one. I didn't even know they made plastic distributor gears. So I guess I'm swithiong to bronze.
Ken

ken swart · #12 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 09:07 PM

I mean switching, I think

FWB · #13 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 09:16 PM

ken, sounds like you have it licked, generally the bronze gears are used for roller cams, they also have a finite life, probably longer than the plastic, lol
if the cam is a non-roller you could use steel. if your not putting a lot of miles the bronze should be fine, i generally get 6 to 8 k mile on them before changing.

ken swart · #14 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 09:31 PM

Thanks FWB
At the rate I'm going the bronze will get me to a walker.
The reason I asked about alternatives is a friend who's a Chevy guy suggested maybe the assembly fell apart (don't know how that happens).
Anyway I'm REALLY glad it wasn't the oil pump.
Ken

FWB · #15 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 09:58 PM

well the chances of it NOT being the oil pump was slim, someone above is looking out for you for sure.
with that being said oil pumps jamming due to debris are usually attributed to high mileage motors with umbrella type valve seals, they harden and disintegrate, then the oil pump picks up a speck of it and jams. so you finding a plastic gear that gave up the ghost was the best possible scenario.

fred

Excaliber · #16 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 10:01 PM

Ha Ha, reminds me of the guys who lost a bronze gear saying they were going to try the new polymer gears. There for awhile some of us just carried an extra gear in the glove box and figured out how to swap one on the side of the road. This could be only the beginning of a long saga yet to be played out...

Then there are a couple of us who took the ultimate cure for sheared dist gears: Dumped the solid roller cam all together! Flat tappet here, I sure got tired of messing with dist gears. Jamo came to the same conclusion.

FWB · #17 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Ha Ha, reminds me of the guys who lost a bronze gear saying they were going to try the new ploymer gears.

Then there are a couple of us who took the ultimate cure for sheared dist gears: Dumped the solid roller cam all together! Flat tappet here, I sure got tired of messing with dist gears. Jamo came to the same conclusion.

they are a pain aren't they.......every two years for me....i would miss my roller cam though so i deal with it.

Excaliber · #18 (**permalink**) 06-09-2010, 10:12 PM

I loved my roller, in spite of the occasional head ache. It finally ate a lifter at about 8,000 miles and I ended up doing a total rebuild then. I was kind of looking for an excuse anyway...

ken swart · #19 (**permalink**) 06-10-2010, 08:58 PM

Alright guys, school time.
Why can you use a steel gear with a flat tappet cam and not a roller?

RICK LAKE · #20 (**permalink**) 06-11-2010, 03:23 AM

ken swart Ken It depends on material the cam shafts are make from. There are also some other things that have to be looked at,
end play on the camshaft, many guys don't check this and shim it if it's too big on the spec, the gear is shaved and perwears out.
Oiling of the area, making sure this location gets a supply of oil and not rely on just splash. 2 metal parts rubbing together under load, wear out.
IMO solid roller cams ate not ment to be street drivin. Yes there are alot on the street,but these camshafts profiles are for racing. Idling is the killer of solid roller camshafts. Comp and some of the other companies have gone to pressurized roller pin or bearings oiling to help extend the life of this setup.
The distributor gear is also like the pin at the bottom, the gear is a wear out ideam and is cheaper to replace than a whole camshaft kit. This would include the roller lifters too. I don't believe in using a new camshaft with old rollers that have wear markers now in the roller wheel.
A bronze gear will give you 6-50K miles if the things above are in spec and a well lubed location. You could run a steel on steel setup but the other issue is shaving of the gear, steel shaving are alot stronger than bronze and will do alot more damage inside a motor than bronze. Bronze is soft and might go through a motor and oil pump and not sieze the oil pump drive. Steel will lock up the oil pump and do possible alot of damage internally. Call comp and match the correct gear with the camshaft is the best way to go. Rick L.