Ford NASCAR Engine: FR9

[Don]

FAST 5: FR’S HERVEY TALKS FR9 ENGINE
9/17/2009
" Dearborn, Mich. — In January, Ford Racing and Roush Yates Engines announced Ford’s next generation NASCAR engine with an unveiling of the FR9. The highly anticipated new power plant has been the subject of much speculation throughout the 2009 season. Ford Racing’s Doug Hervey sat down with Fast News From Ford Racing to give an update regarding the progress of the engine and when we will see the FR9 on track "


http://www.fordracing.com/news/detail/?article=36899

[Bill Bess]

I hope it's a good one and puts out the power and reliability to push Ford to the front of the pack. Currently, it's hit or miss with the existing motors....Concrete Carl needs some more HP.

Bill

[Don]

AutoWeek.com
11-9-09

" Ford FR9 engines get thumbs-up "

" Engine-builder Doug Yates found no major issues when he examined the new Ford FR9 engines that Matt Kenseth and David Ragan used in last weekend's 500-mile race at Talladega Superspeedway. The AMP Energy 500 was the first on-track test of the engine that Ford Racing has spent more than a year planning, designing and building.

Brian Wolfe, head of Ford's motorsports programs, said on Sunday at TMS that Yates was “very, very happy” with what he found.

“I spoke with him the day after the race and he said he was tickled pink, that everything looked perfect,” Wolfe said. “He's very critical, but [in this case], he was very, very happy with what he saw. Really, he was ecstatic.”

Wolfe is not sure when the FR9 will run again.

“Maybe this year,” he said coyly. “But I put it back in Doug's hands. From my perspective, from the marketing perspective of making a big splash, it might not be such a big deal to run it at Phoenix or Homestead. But we'll do whatever he thinks we need to do to get more critical data leading into next year. We want a strong schedule with that engine next year.” "

[Bill Bess]

I guess production motors in NASCAR are a thing of the past.
With Toyota not having a modern overhead valve pushrod V8. Then letting them design a new motor so they can compete in a triditional American product racing....nothing is the same.

[Rick Parker]

It just not "Stock Car Racing" is it!!!!!!!!

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Bill Bess

I guess production motors in NASCAR are a thing of the past.

I'm no NASCAR expert, but haven't the teams been using a nearly identically-engineered chassis and a handful of shared engines for a long, long time? About all that varies is the longitudinal section of the body hung over it all.

It's great racing, but the notion that it has much of anything to do with the individual automakers is thin at best. Ford must win more often because their logo-decal is more streamlined than Chevy or Dodge's... right?

[Wes Tausend]

...

The original idea that Bill France had regarding running stock cars has been long lost. Heck, I've read that some guys even ran a stock rental car way back when. Doesn't get more "stock" than that.

I tried to find out just what is different and improved in the FR9 engine but it is an elusive endeavor. As near as I can make out, I think Ford copied as much as possible from the path GM used to develop the LS1 pushrod series motors. Basically a stiffer block. That, after first coming up with an overhead cam (OHC) "modular" engine with such cramped bore spacing, the stroke ended up significantly greater than the bore for a grossly under-square engine unheard of since the 1920's. No room for valve size. The only way it can breathe at all is with a blower. Oh, it's durable enough, winding out to 7K with lightweight OHC valve gear and all. But why? It's got to cost a fortune to build these motors. I heard it was supposed to initially fit tranversely in a Taurus like sedan. It still ended up longer (and much, much heavier) than their smallblock Windsor motor.

Well, that does it. Now I think is the time for Ford to revert back to the V8 flathead engine. Seriously.

First, it would honor a Ford institution and generate retro public marketing appeal. Second, it would enhance corporate cost savings because the engine is so simple with far less moving parts than a pushrod motor not to mention any OHC. It would be too primitive you say? Heck, the OHC and roller lifters are an old, old design though not common in mild production engines ...until the Japanese put them in every econobox.

From an engineering standpoint, the simple valve-less head V8 flathead design is very durable, extremely compact, lightweight and low cost to produce. The blocks are inherently stiff and leak resistant. The restricted "side-valve" breathing can be easily overcome with an intake blower which will also allow lower real displacement for economy. The lightweight valve-train with direct lift on the valves is equal to the non-rocker direct lift on 2-cam (or 4-cam) OHC motors, also minus at least one heavy extra camshaft. A flathead motor will wind just as high as any OHC motor because the valve-train can weigh precisely the same. Nowadays, the inherent "hidden-crevice" emissions of an elongated Ricardo combustion chamber can be rendered moot by using direct injection(DI). The future may require DI and blowers anyway to meet pollution standards. Save money on block design ...spend it on blowers and DI.

And to top it all off, it would be a piece of cake to short-route both the intake and exhaust ports to the center valley as Ford has done with the exhaust in their new 6.7L V8 diesel. The exhaust could also directly drive a twin non-lag valley turbo as it does in the new diesel. The valley mounted compresser would have a straight shot to the intake. Then what? Well no manifolding at all on the outer block walls. Lotsa fenderwell room left over. No excessive heat to worm its' way back to a single exhaust. One measly turbo-cooled single exhaust downpipe directly down the back of the engine and out.

Almost forgot. Why watercool the heads? With aluminum and no exhaust valve-in-head, it might not be necessary. No more leaky headgaskets. Finned aluminum replacement head ...$27 each.

Power? Power enough for NASCAR? Simple. Just crank up the manifold boost pressure. All they gotta do is convince NASCAR to allow blowers again, like the old '57 T-Bird Y-block/McCullough Holman- Moody setup.

If Ford doesn't build it, then the Chinese will. They probably already own NASCAR anyway.

Wes

...

[Ron61]

Wes,

A blower in NASCAR. Go wash your mind with soap. Nothing about any of these cars has been stock except the painted on body style for years. I don't see where the two test runs of the new Ford engine really did anything great. They still seem down in power to the Chevys and Toyotas. But if anyone can make them work, I think it would be Roush.

Ron