Five Terrible Cruelties of Liberalism

[HI Cobra]

Being in the construction business here in Hawaii and having done work on
most of the islands, the major differences in the counties are tax rates and
local construction codes and approval processes. Car registrations have
taxes both state and county for weight and also state and county fees which
vary from island to island. Other than that you still pay more in taxes here
tan most anyplace else. No wonder I am liking Texas more and more.

[Excaliber]

I just got back from Oregon. What I really liked was getting a bill for buying something that was really accurate. If the bill was $7.99, that's it, you get a penny back from 8 bucks.

California? The freakin' sales tax is so complicated I never WHAT the "real" bill is going to be.

[427sharpe]

got no problem now that the country is moving in right direction
Z.

How, with all the debt we have acquired, and are as we speak doubling, can ANYBODY of reasonable mind make this statement? If the gene pool in Texas 'aint what it used to be', yours must be dried up completely!

[427sharpe]

got no problem now that the country is moving in right direction
Z.

How, with all the debt we have acquired, and are as we speak doubling, can ANYBODY of reasonable mind make this statement? If the gene pool in Texas 'aint what it used to be', yours must be dried up completely!

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by 427sharpe

got no problem now that the country is moving in right direction
Z.

How, with all the debt we have acquired, and are as we speak doubling, can ANYBODY of reasonable mind make this statement? If the gene pool in Texas 'aint what it used to be', yours must be dried up completely!

at the risk of incoming slanders of my home state(s), I must admit to no Texas ties. My gene pool comes from Oklahoma via Missouri, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Germany, England & Ireland.

doubling of the debt is no problem.

Clinton assumed a massive debt. Allowing for inflation, the national debt in 1990 (when Clinton assumed office) was much greater than the one we have/will have today. The key now is the same as it was then, grow the economy. Historically, democrat administrations have a better track record in that department.

Secondly, coming off a recession, ALL reputable economists agree that the Fed must be free spending to speed recovery. A tight money policy will only make things worse.

Z.

[Ralphy]

Z
Please supply a link to those economists? By those standards we should be well on our way to a massive recovery. Instead of our President making comments about his worries of a double dip recession because of his massive spending!

I'll supply a link.
Just a big fat WOW!
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...cit-grows.html

[zrayr]

here's one, not that expect you to heed anything published by the Washington Post.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5434160.shtml

Let's just agree to disagree & get back to horsepower.

peace, bro.

Z.

[Ralphy]

Z
I'm sorry but I see nothing in that article supporting your statement.

Peace

[Excaliber]

From what I have seen, read, considered, the massive spending is indeed warranted, painful though it may be. The alternatives, cut spending, tighten the belt, let companies fail, does not seem like a logical approach.

What would I do different? HA! Like ANY of us are in a position to make THAT call! We can arm chair quarter back till the cows come home, but we lack the necessary data to make the "call". When the economy is this bad it matters little WHO is at the helm when it comes to "popularity". Could be McCain right now, I gaurentee he would to would be taking some serious heat over all his "stupid" decisions. The POTUS is in a no win situation here. One thing I DO know, it's the economy that put Obama in office, THAT alone is the fundamental reason he won, McC lost.

Would McC have CONTINUED the same policies that contributed to this massive economic perfect storm? No question! We had no choice but to go for "change". How's that working out for me? A helluva lot better than if McC was steering the ship, we'd all ready be sunk.

[Ralphy]

Ex,
You started out good. Then in the last paragraph your true colors came out.
lol!

Tell everyone about the great government health care program in your home state, that only lasted 7 months. Before it went broke.

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

Z
I'm sorry but I see nothing in that article supporting your statement.

Peace

put another way,

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/bu...y/07spend.html

http://economics.about.com/od/recess...t_deficits.htm

and what Japan accomplished with massise Gov. spending duting a recession:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/bu...bal/16yen.html

same for Germany:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aFUXFe61jqYQ

and Australia

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Ocs&refer=home


and now I have to crawl under the GT and see where all that oil is coming from.......

Z.

[Excaliber]

True colors? It should be obvious to all from my many posts I'm no Republican! I despise those who were in power for eight years as much as many of you despise the current government administration. I welcome reasonable discussion, facts, worthy opinions not based on any one political party or the other. I do not blindly support ANY political party, but will decide for myself where I stand on the individual issues.

Don't know much about that Hawaii Gov health plan for CHILDREN you speak off, Ralphy. Don't have any kids it applied to. As I understand it though, it didn't "go broke". It was shut down because to many people were abusing it, the system. That tell's me the Hawaii Gov responded in a timely manner to a program that was poorly designed to stop fraud.

ANY current National Health reform program runs a similiar risk. We won't really have a handle on it (in terms of fraud, abuse, etc.) until it's implemented. The key will be the Fed Gov being able to respond in a timely manner to "plug the inevitable leaks".

The recent exposes about Medicare fraud are an important indicator of how the Feds may address current and future abuse in that regard. A good place to start, for health care reform, would be a "war on Medicare fraud" as intense as the war on drugs or terrorism!

Z, it's the oil pan bolts! That's what it was on my FE.

[Excaliber]

Hawaii's basic health coverage plan is an excellent model for the Nation, in my opinion. Every employer is required by law to provide health insurance for their employees, period.

[Ralphy]

Z
Lets go back to what you said, "Secondly, coming off a recession, ALL reputable economists agree that the Fed must be free spending to speed recovery. A tight money policy will only make things worse."

You still never showed these reputable economists, is this a code phrase? Like reputable researchers on global warming. Meaning only the ones who agree with your views. Maybe they all know each other.

Point two, many of your links talk of tax cuts, that is not viewed in eco. as spending. Examples are income tax cuts, the cash for clunkers, etc..

[Ralphy]

Ex your not totally right. From what I remember there is an hourly min. to qualify. Which leads to many part time workers.

[Ralphy]

So I picked the wrong words.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....ealth-care/440

[Excaliber]

That is true Z, which does in fact lead to "part time" workers purposely kept below the 20 hour a week (or what ever guideline) to keep them off health insurance. Other companies hire only "sub contractors". There is always a way to "beat the system". In addition not all health care plans are much to talk about! Some are little more than catastrophic coverage at best.

Still, the basic premise allows more people access to health care than not. It also provides for a fairly robust "free market" approach for health insurance providers to lower their fee's. Competition is keen. At it's worst, it's far better than no insurance plan at all!

By the way, rumor has it, the Hawaii Gov is looking at ways to address the issue of "part time" workers being denied coverage.

This argument, or point of discussion I should say, reminds me of the Republican mantra with the current health care reform bill(s). They claim a Gov plan will "ration" health care. I find that argument absurd and ridiculous! Fact is we ALL READY ration health care. Those without it, die earlier than those with it! Those with little coverage are at more risk than those with a robust plan. Rationing is a reality all ready. The proposed solutions, while imperfect, at least allow for more people to get SOME kind of coverage. Something, certainly beats nothing!

[Ralphy]

I have friends in Kona.
I also have a co-worker from Boston. He had a chance to transfer out and he took it. Saying Massachusets government health care and property taxes made him leave.

[Excaliber]

I THOUGHT Hawaii property tax was high, until I started looking for a place in Oregon. OUCH!!!! Makes Hawaii look down right reasonable.

If you get out of town there not to bad, but in town they are frightening.

[Ralphy]

Hilo had reasonable prices. However the rain!