1099 misc and the Health Care Bill

Scott S · #1 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 07:31 AM

The new HCB will require all of business owners to start sending a 1099 misc to corporations. WTF has that got to do with getting health care to those that need it? If you want to read it is page 1999 sec 9006.

http://republican.senate.gov/healthcare/

This will create a HUGE new burden in our accounting, how about the rest of you?

Damn them, damn the whole bunch to hell...

Scott S

BeanCounter · #2 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 07:43 AM

Scott,

I've been having to send 1099's to Massachusetts for two years now. Even though we're a Missouri insurance company some of our customers have employees in Mass and we have to provide them 1099's concerning their health care coverage. Very costly to us.

Ron61 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 07:43 AM

Scott,

That is the Reid version of the bill that he pulled the switch on. He got those idiots to agree to a vote on another bill completely and then when they went to vote he put this bill in it's place. I don't like either of the bills and think the Govt. does not have the right to force people to buy anything. If they want this so called health insurance good, but if they don't this used to be a free country where people could make their own choices. But now it is becoming more and more Socialist and the people are only here to serve the politicians and Govt. I would like to see all of them kicked out of office and a new bunch elected. What next, the Govt. will force everyone to buy whatever they think they can make money on??

Ron

rustyBob · #4 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 08:22 PM

the govt. wants everyone to buy a new Chevy..........
i guess i will have to do time in a govt. jail for not being able to pay the fine for not haveing govt. insurence.

Excaliber · #5 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 08:29 PM

If you can't pay the fine because you truly lack the funds, there is no "fine". Of course your free to cheat the system in that regard, just like folks do with any other tax obligation.

Ron61 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 06:37 AM

Bob,

You won't go to jail immediately if you can't pay the fine. First they will confiscate any property that you own, then being homeless they will ignore you. Also the fine will become larger every year. Please don't ask me to give the page and section of the Reid bill as I have spent so much time reading through it I don't think I could locate anything right now and I haven't even begin to read all 2K+ pages of this disaster.

Ernie blew his chance the three days he was HOMELESS after selling his trailer and not having completed the transaction for his house.

Ron

Excaliber · #7 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 07:52 AM

Well, it did get a bit rough what with the two dogs and myself sharing a Holiday Inn room. They had their own bed but insisted on sleeping on mine.

Ron61 · #8 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 08:40 AM

Well now we know why Ernie is so well versed on political matters. He stayed at a Holiday Inn.

Ron

Dan40 · #9 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron61

Well now we know why Ernie is so well versed on political matters. He stayed at a Holiday Inn.

Ron

Doesn't it have to be a Holiday Inn EXPRESS to make him smart?

Ron61 · #10 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 10:31 AM

I didn't say he was SMART!!! After all he left his Cobra in my garage.

Ron

Gunner · #11 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Very costly to us.

Just how costly is it to generate a standard tax-reporting form if you're using any accounting system newer than pegboard and paper journals?

Is 44 cents to mail it out really make or break for you?

Excaliber · #12 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

...using any accounting system newer than pegboard and paper journals

Now that's funny. Flintsone comes to mind.

Gunner · #13 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Now that's funny. Flintsone comes to mind.

It's something Fred and Barney would be familiar with, and about as flexible as Fred's mind:

BeanCounter · #14 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 04:57 PM

Gunner,

Small minds think in small ways. When you have over 700,000 subscribers and some 5,000 of them require 1099's I'd be glad to pay you .44 cents to fill out those returns. They are not standard tax forms, they are very specialized in the information that is needed. Tell you what, I'll give you two grand to fill them out for us. But you have to have it done prior to January 31. No wonder California is in such trouble. They have no idea what things cost.

Gunner · #15 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 05:07 PM

If you have a proper accounting and records management system, it's a five minute job by someone competent to devise a report that will fill the 1099s out with the correct info. Your cost to generate them, even 5,000 of them, should be negligible. Mailing should be by far the highest percentage of the unit cost.

There are so many such "statements" needed in the course of any business that an additional one should not cost you "a bundle" to manage unless you're doing something very wrong.

I'm not saying this plethora of reports, statements, accounts, etc. is good or even necessary. Such things *are* a part of any business and it's well to be able to handle them efficiently, whether they're government-specified or not.

BeanCounter · #16 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 07:19 PM

Gunner,

I'm willing to personally put up a thousand dollars to see you do it in 5 minutes. I'll front the plane ticket out here. If you don't get it done in 5 minutes (and we have a very sophisticated system) you pay me the $1,000 and reimburse me the plane flight. Cut the BS.

Gunner · #17 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 08:20 PM

*Shrug*. I do similar things all the time, as our company has extensive and ever-changing reporting requirements (most of which are non-governmental in nature). Many are sui generis and require complex manipulation of our data, far more than just extract-and-print. I am *not* an analyst or highly trained in db management but I have no trouble shaping these reports in a short time, nothing out of scale to the number or complexity of the reports. (It usually takes me more than 5 minutes - an hour or two is typical if I fuss with the output.) I could grumble about it, but it's just part of what needs to be done to keep the company meshed with everything outside of it.

Unless I'm drastically missing some point, all you have to do in this case is pull existing data and print it out - which should be child's play.

Specifically, insurance is nothing but heaps of data. I doubt there's a single field on those 1099s that isn't a standard datum in every subscriber's record. A 1099 is a common and highly standard form. If you're saying that writing a report to pull that existing data out of your database, format it and print it on a standard form for 7% of your subscriber base is "going to cost you a bundle," there's something wrong somewhere. Either you have an insufficiently flexible database manager, insufficiently skilled analysts, or you're paying some contractor wayyy too much for too little. Seriously.

I suspect the real problem here lies elsewhere, but I refuse to bang my cane on the floor and chant, "Dagnab dadgummed gummint!" as an argument.

BeanCounter · #18 (**permalink**) 12-05-2009, 09:54 PM

Dagnabit, I guess it's that fourth grade education that just doesn't allow me to understand all that complex data that you seem to manipulate with ease. Maybe if I had an MBA and 40 years experience (could it be that I do) I would understand that. Or could it be that you don't have any idea what you're talking about. First of all it is not a standard 1099, it is a special form that no one else has but the state of Massachusetts has which has entirely different data than what the standard 1099 does. Secondly it involves not only sending the required form to the individuals but additional reports to the group, as well as specialized electronic data format to the state. Since it's a special request that requires something other than a fly by the seat of your pants report (it requires analysis, project plans, and documentation that is all required by other non funded mandates from the fed and states as well as the almost mandatory yearly changes that some state flunky has thought up to the form and EDI submission) that turns a simple 15 minute listing into a full fledged project. Don't tell me, you're a government bureaucrat in Sacramento that has forgotten about all of the other crap mandates that effect this one.

Welcome to why your government controlled insurance costs are so high.

Oh, I forgot, how long would it take you to burn the 300+ Cd's that are required that you provide to the group?????

Scott S · #19 (**permalink**) 12-06-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Just how costly is it to generate a standard tax-reporting form if you're using any accounting system newer than pegboard and paper journals?

Is 44 cents to mail it out really make or break for you?

Do you own the company?

VRM · #20 (**permalink**) 12-08-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Gunner,

I'm willing to personally put up a thousand dollars to see you do it in 5 minutes. I'll front the plane ticket out here. If you don't get it done in 5 minutes (and we have a very sophisticated system) you pay me the $1,000 and reimburse me the plane flight. Cut the BS.

Bernie,
If you are talking about MADOR 1099HC, then the data is standard XML format (something I do every day). I looked at the MADOR schema - it is very simple and straightforward - there is nothing 'specialised' about it - it is in a standard data transmission format used around the world. What is the 'very sophisticated system' you are using, and does it already contain all the data needed for the MADOR? Is the system you have XML capable or native? Are you set up as a bulk filer, and do you have an SSH client?

What do you need to burn 300 CDs for? Are they all the same? Exporting reports to burn to a CD is simple also. A friend of mine is a rap artist and will bulk burn 500 CDs for around $200.

BTW, I also talked to 3 friends who work in HR (one of them is a director and has a masters - they told me what the 'special' 1099 form was) - they all said to look at Quickbooks, 1099pro, or get someone like ADP to do it all for you, and they have all had to do form 1099HC. What are your cost/time breakdowns for each aspect of this job (data manipulation, E-filing, printing, envelope stuffing, and CDs?)

I'm not looking for an argument with you on this - I'm already convinced that if you feel the need to fly someone out to do this then you are already behind the times. If your data is in a proper object-oriented DB it would probably take me about 30-45 minutes to output to the MADOR schema for online filing and about 5 to send a batch print job. Using a pre-formatted program with 1099HC would take even less. It would probably take longer to load the program than it would to test and file the data.

I may be willing to put my money where my mouth is, but you need to pony up your 'very sophisticated system' specs.

Steve