GMAC To Get 3.8 Billion More

Ron61 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 06:43 AM

Now with the Govt. being the majority owner, how long do you think they will survive?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...ntent=My+Yahoo

Ron

Bobcat · #2 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 08:06 AM

Ron ... unfortunately , with our money , they`ll survive a very long time as the government will NOT admit failure

.

Bob

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 10:04 AM

We could let them go broke? Not sure what would happen, something bad I suppose? The bulk of their debt is toxic housing related sub prime loans. There kind of hard to sell, even at a discounted price.

Ron61 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 11:18 AM

Ernie,

I am not sure what would happen if they went broke, but I don't think it is the taxpayers job to bail out every corrupt and inefficiently ran company no matter who they are. I saw in the news this morning where some company is losing some of their overpaid CEOs because they have put a cap on the bonuses they can give themselves. And it they wind up with a bunch of old houses that they can't sell, to bad. I am sure the Govt. won't be able to do any better.

Ron

bomelia · #5 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 11:29 AM

Nobody will admit it, but the insidious relationship of unions and management is a large part of the problem. Yes, Ford has survived, but for how long? All the Government is doing is helping GMAC meet its payroll. There is no evidence that things are improving at GMAC.

Let them go under. It will not be the end of the world. All that is happening now is that GMAC will continue to do wrong what it has always been doing wrong.

I despise usnions and now I am being forced to pay them. How sick and revolting is that? Just one notch above Federal funding for abortion. That's how sick (btw if you are in a union, please take it somewhere else, I am not trying to start a battle here and I will ignore you if you do try).

Mike

Excaliber · #6 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 11:31 AM

Well your right Ron, we can't go around bailing out every company that made bad decisions. With caps on the CEO bonuses I'm still wondering WHERE these guys are going to when they quit their jobs? I'm also wondering, WHY the heck are they so freakin' important to begin with?

Being as the major share holder is the US Gov, we clearly have a right to a say about how the business is being run. Whether those decisions by US Gov are good or bad as it relates to "running the business" could be debated. Don't want the Gov messing with your bonus structure? Easy solution, pay back the dam loan!

It's a good question, what WOULD happen if we let them go broke? With some companies it's more clear than others. Like GM itself, tied to so many other "little guys" and being such a large part of our economy, I think that was a "must do". GMAC, essentially a financing company with toxic loans could be lumped into the same category as many other financial institutions, banks, AIG, Wall Street in general.

It seem's careful consideration was made by an array of economist's, through two administrations, as to which ones to save and which ones to let go. Who eats who and who get's eaten.

It is imperative that the people "keep the heat on" to make sure those decision's are good ones.

Excaliber · #7 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 11:35 AM

Could be a ripple effect? GMAC isn't the only one holding these toxic sub prime loans. IF they go broke, what happens to the loans? Would that trigger a wider response from other companies holding such loans?

What if we just said "Screw it" to ALL of them. You bought the loans, you deal with it! I suspect that is basically what caused the whole melt down in the first place, WHAT to do with the toxic loans? It's still a delima.

bomelia · #8 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 11:43 AM

At some point, you have to let the market correct itself. All that is happening now is forestalling the inevitable. And at a rather high price!

Mike

Excaliber · #9 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 11:51 AM

I THINK it would mean massive foreclosures? More bank failures? Virtually impossible for anyone to get a loan? No loans available will really really hurt us all.

But yeah, I concur, at some point you just have to let it go and let it hit the fan.

bomelia · #10 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 12:39 PM

That's right. Take the medicine now, or take it later. That is the choice. But at what cost to us taxpayers? Right now we have dumped almost a trillion dollars of current and FUTER taxes into these failed giants. And it is not working. Unemployement in double digits, the dollar is almost worthless and for what end? So Obama can make pronouncements from on high about how HIS efforts are working? Tell that to the 5-10 million unemployed folks.

Obama is well on his way to becoming the next Hoover.

Mike

Jamo · #11 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomelia

* * *

Obama is well on his way to becoming the next Hoover.

Mike

Well, he does suck.

Excaliber · #12 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

And it is not working.

I wouldn't assume that, we never got a chance to see the down side of letting these various agencies fail. I don't see a correlation between unemployment and letting them fail, which would surely have caused even more massive unemployment. Stabilizing them, at least gives us some "hope" that employment has a future.

It is a very good question though, one that has always been overlooked. Not just here on CC but in the news in general.

WHY couldn't we let these companies fail? WHAT actually does it mean when people say the "collapse" of our economic system? What would the real world results be? Apparently it's a very ugly picture, if the Nations primary economists are to be believed?

I know for sure the immediate impact would be NO MONEY for loans, period. Our Nation run's on credit, that issue alone may be the critical issue as it concerns "economic collapse". Someone building his new Cobra would be forced to stop right in his tracks. No more credit, no more parts! Housing likewise, investments tied up. Inflation would...? Dollar value would...?

Dan40 · #13 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 02:31 PM

Net Income Applicable To Common Shares(in thousands) 08 ($30,860,000) 07 ($38,732,000) 06 ($1,978,000)

Looks like a wonderful place to burn a few more billions.

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 02:34 PM

So, what do you think the impact would be if we simply let them fail (GMAC)?

Dan40 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

So, what do you think the impact would be if we simply let them fail (GMAC)?

Duh! They have failed. There is no auto producing GM, there is only a Government Bureaucracy masquerading as an auto company. The AMTRAK of the auto world.

Excaliber · #16 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 03:38 PM

DUH!!!!

Uh, no, they didn't fail. Hundreds of little producers of various car parts are still in business as a result. Without GM they wouldn't be.

What your doing, by the way, is called "projection" in psychology. Your looking forward to a worse case scenario where your world is filled with doom and gloom. A kind of living in a cave survivalist hunting big foot out look, you might say.

Now MY world is filled with Unicorns and Rainbows as I happily anticipate these various corporations getting back on their feet, repaying their loans and everyone has excellent health care! Except for those poor illegal aliens, but I'm working on a plan to cover their "worthless" butt too (just thought you'd like to know).

Ronbo · #17 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 04:21 PM

If you actually think GM was going to allow itself to be diced up in liquidation to pay the bond holders...

Killer bees, hole in the ozone, Man made global warming, GM shutting down...

Nobody thinks Sears will shut down tomorrow (even after buying a turd like Kmart), yet you believe GM was going to shut down. Gimmie a break!

GMAC was already dumped for the most part by GM, last I checked most banks still finance a car loan and don't care who made it. The sales dept. controlling the finance dept. was trouble from the start.

Excaliber · #18 (**permalink**) 12-31-2009, 05:09 PM

Actually, I think there is a very good chance Sears will go under in the near future, if not this year maybe next. That soon I would dare to project.

,,,come to think of it, we should bail them out, I really like their tools and if they went under it would have an immediate impact on ME!

Had we let GM "restructure" under a lengthy bankruptcy it would have had a devastating affect on a large part of the nation. I DID favor a GM bankruptcy for awhile, screw 'em, not a stinkin' dime would I offer them. But in the end, it was not a bad plan for the Gov to hasten the bankruptcy, keep it short, let's get back to work. Had GM been left on their own they would STILL be in bankruptcy court and many many more jobs would have been lost.

...thats what I think the impact would have been on GM had we let them "fail".

Ron61 · #19 (**permalink**) 01-01-2010, 05:40 AM

Our Nation run's on credit,

Ernie, that statement alone shows a big part of why we are in this mess. That along with the consumers thinking there was no limits to how much they could charge and never considering that it had to be paid one of these days. Why can't the Govt. operate like normal people who have normal intelligence and spend only what they have or can afford? I am not normal I know as many on here will tell you, but I haven't bought anything on credit for the last 40 years. If I can't afford to pay for it, I don't get it. I do use my credit card a lot, but I pay it off every month. We are past the point that the Govt. just printing worthless money on paper is going to help. China is already starting to refuse that in some cases and wants what we owe them. Germany has the strongest economy in Europe and has passed us in that respect.

Ron

Excaliber · #20 (**permalink**) 01-01-2010, 08:42 AM

Good or bad our economy is based on consumerism, something like 70% I've heard. That means credit. Those of us, that includes me, that aren't "buying stuff" are not helping this recovery, this country. Every advertiser on here is looking to sell something, it's what this country does, it's who we are. When we stop "consuming" the economy get's ugly quick. China is doing well we because we buy their "stuff".

As far as them "wanting their money" from us, aint gonna happen. That would actually devastate their own economy if they pulled the money out. The US dollar would plummet as their's would. Were kind of "locked at the hip" on that issue.

Solution? There is none. This country is not going back to "farming", our industrial base, frankly, may not be big enough to save us this time. Even given a decade or more, were in for a permanent change of some kind, in my opinion. I'm not one to dwell on "doom and gloom" but I know, I whisper, were in deep s--t here. The Republicans cannot change that. "Voting the bums out" will not change it, which won't happen anyway. The Dem's are here to stay, the Republican party is doomed, straight up, it may never recover again. That's not hype from a Liberal, thats a fact based opinion on the nightmare to come. Obama IS going to win a second term, period. Who will run against him in the Republican camp that can attract the Latino vote, the young vote, the millions with "new health insurance" votes Obama just handed them? Who ever it is better get started RIGHT NOW, because Obama is wrapping those votes up, RIGHT NOW.

Don't hold your breath some kind of "revolution" will happen and people will flock to the Republican side of the aisle. Repub's, dead man walking.