'Jesus Scopes' in Line of Fire

[Gunner]

I find this kind of "hidden message" crap offensive on so many levels, and I am always amazed when believers think it's a good thing. So you're, let's say, a truly faithful Christian. Do you REALLY think it's appropriate to put a reference to the words of your savior on an implement designed to enhance the job of killing people? So this week it's killing heathen Muslims... I'm sure it will be drawing a big clear bead on other Christians someday, too. How... Christian of the makers and admirers.

At least when I bought a Buck knife years back it was just a slip of paper in the box that professed their belief that "Jesus was their business partner" - it wasn't engraved on the knife. Or too bad it wasn't - it might have been very comforting to Sharon Tate.

So if the maker was run by a Muslim family and had, say, a little line from the Qu'ran or a crescent-and-star on it, for exactly the equivalent reasons that this maker puts their little scriptural reference on it... would that be okay?

Or let's say some seriously bad-ass types start turning out military hardware, and in support of their faith they put a pentagram or broken cross on every item. Would that be okay?

Nah. I went through this a couple of years ago in the Mustang forums, over my Vintage Wheel Works TTD clones. The makers saw fit to cast a little icthys on the inside lip, which I found inappropriate and offensive on all these same levels. The Mustang crowd, redneck as it gets, called me every name in the book and gave patently stupid answers to questions like the ones above ("If some raghead put his symbol on my wheels I'd go burn down his warehouse!!!")

So I content myself that with every turn of the wheel I drag their precious symbol through the dirt and the mud and brake dust and whatever other crap is on the road. None of them saw anything wrong with that, either - which tells me a lot about their notions of faith.

Believing that the one true god is on your side and in favor of killing those heathens over there is contrary to the expressed spirit of every major religion, and the cause of most conflicts of the last 20 years. Not that any side is capable of learning better...

[Ron61]

One way or the other is no big deal to me. I have a couple of items here that have a Muslim symbol on them and it doesn't bother me. Even have one with the Russian Hammer and Cycle on it. I don't pay any attention to the media as they no longer report news but try to make it up to get higher ratings.

Ron

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Ron61

One way or the other is no big deal to me. I have a couple of items here that have a Muslim symbol on them

What, and who were the items made for?

I don't pay any attention to the media as they no longer report news but try to make it up to get higher ratings.

I'd be the last to disagree; television news in particular puts ratings first and adherence to journalism principles last. But I'm not sure this isn't news - if we can continually castigate the other side for pressing a war on a religious basis, aren't our own acts that cross that line subject to some scrutiny? This is a minor issue but I've no doubt the Arabic press will point to it as an example that it is indeed a religious war and they are thus right to continue their holy exertions.

In other words, if we object to them using their religion as a basis for war, we need to scrupulously exclude religion from our effort to oppose them, even down to minutiae like this.

[Ron61]

Gunner,

I have no idea. I don't even know where they came from and am not sure if I could even find them. I didn't even know what the two with the Muslim emblems were until a few years ago when some guy looking at them told me. The one with the Russian Flag I believe was some kind of knife and it had the small inset in the handle but even that I can't find. Heck, I may have given them to that guy as he was interested in that type of junk and I didn't care about it at all.

(quote) In other words, if we object to them using their religion as a basis for war, we need to scrupulously exclude religion from our effort to oppose them, even down to minutiae like this. (quote)

If our press wasn't so Anti American they would be doing the same thing. It is going to be don whether you or I like it or not.

Ron

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Ron61

If our press wasn't so Anti American they would be doing the same thing. It is going to be don whether you or I like it or not.

Sorry, you lost me on that turn. I don't see this as being about the press; the New York Times didn't cast that inscription on the scopes. Is it ABC's fault for pointing it out?

[Ron61]

Not well worded on my part. I never said they cast the inscription on the scope. They don't hesitate to point it out to the world though. But how many times have they made a big deal out of any other group having something with their religious symbol on it. I don't approve of it, but I don't have anything to do with it being done.

As for the It is going to be done part, I meant that groups are going to keep or have religious symbols on their weapons whether we like it or not. They even had them on some of the rifles they used in Korea but they weren't put there by the military, just the regular Infantry people. Somewhat like the names painted on bombers in World War 11.

Ron

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Ron61;10****4

They don't hesitate to point it out to the world though.

I still don't see how it's not news, or how ABC is doing a disservice (net) by reporting it.

As for the It is going to be done part, I meant that groups are going to keep or have religious symbols on their weapons whether we like it or not. They even had them on some of the rifles they used in Korea but they weren't put there by the military, just the regular Infantry people.

Of course this has been the case for a long, long time. I'd draw a distinction, though, between individual grunts doing it to their weapons, helmets, vests etc. and providing equipment with the quote or symbol manufactured in. So a Jewish soldier finds it offensive: is he likely to be allowed to grind it off? Doubt it.

Making it part of officially issued gear makes it an official policy or statement - and that's inappropriate, and whether you think it's unAmerican or not, reporting inappropriate acts of the military is news.