Dear Mr. President from Rush Limbaugh

[Black Mamba]

Yes thank god I too am a union man. It's just too bad all the greedy F**k CEO's are sending our union jobs overseas (outsourcing is the sugar coated term) where they can employ people 168 hours a week for 10 cents an hour. That is why back in the early '90's I started avoiding buying items made and China and still go out of my way to do so. I would rather pay 20% more on a product if I know it's made here in the states or Europe... how's bout you?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Black Mamba

Yes thank god I too am a union man. It's just too bad all the greedy F**k CEO's are sending our union jobs overseas (outsourcing is the sugar coated term) where they can employ people 168 hours a week for 10 cents an hour. That is why back in the early '90's I started avoiding buying items made and China and still go out of my way to do so. I would rather pay 20% more on a product if I know it's made here in the states or Europe... how's bout you?

Why don;t you union guys put your brains to some good use, band together, start up some employee-union owned corporations and run it appropriately. Just think, you could run the private-CEO companies out of business. Why didn;t you jump on the chance to buy out GM or Mopar, then you could have kicked out the CEO's, and made the companies very profitable for a change, and give yourselves all the benefits that you think are appropriate?

[Ronbo]

Simple math really, GM produces 6 million vehicles a year. Average sticker is say $20k.

Let's say the CEO's getting $60 mil a year, that's $10 a car...

Yep, gotta be the CEO's saliary that's killing these auto makers, not the billions going to the unions. GM probably spends more on toilet paper each year than the CEO's pay.

But that's alright keep your head in the sand, Kia's up to bat next in the gang rape.

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Why don;t you union guys put your brains to some good use, band together, start up some employee-union owned corporations and run it appropriately. Just think, you could run the private-CEO companies out of business. Why didn;t you jump on the chance to buy out GM or Mopar, then you could have kicked out the CEO's, and made the companies very profitable for a change, and give yourselves all the benefits that you think are appropriate?

Well, Anthony. Thats basically what we been up to. Kicked a few bums out.
The hand-wringing is almost unbearable to watch.

And McCarthyists are coming out of the woodwork.

Cause, you know, when workers own their own business, that's Socialism.

Wes

...

[RAZOR]

Wes do you think the union fat cats care anything about the working man? They are much worse than the CEO's because they truly are the bloodsuckers that live off the labors, with their only concern being for themselves. At least the CEO's want the company to make a profit so their can be jobs for the average Joe.
And where do you get the idea that the working man creates all the wealth, thats laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic a statement. Business, big and small create the wealth, and gives opportunity for the rest of us to make a living. I got to tell you Karl would be proud of you.
I belonged to the United Steelworkers union long ago when Ohio still had numerous Steel mills that employed thousands of men and women, who made very good money and great benefits. The guys that had 20 years in were able to take 13 weeks of vacation. If we were laid off we received 95% of our normal income, both are ridiculous and the companies were stupid to capitulate to the union demands.
The mills are mostly silent today and in large part due to the Unions. My first day working at the mill I was told several times by the other workers to slow done and not do so much, the foreman called me into the office and was so surprised that I had a work ethic he told me to take a break. Many time I would witness men breaking equipment so they didn't have to work, or so they could have an early quit. Not all the workers were indolent, lazy sloths but far too many were. They were over payed and unproductive, it eventually will catch up, now those jobs don't exist around here.They killed the goose that laid the golden egg. In the beginning the Unions help make the work place safer but they turned into greedy, power grabbing crooks. The CEO's have their problems but they are petty to those of the Union fat cats.

[Wes Tausend]

...

It's nice to hear from another guy who isn't afraid of work. I can see that you have a good work ethic and I admire that and believe in it too. Guys like us end up doing all the rowing while some brothers chronically let the water move the oars for them. We also carry one, or more, management guy(s) at the tiller calling cadence, one unwed mother and off-spring, six fat stockholders that own the boat and one skinny government guy in the back to regulate it all. Wealth is created only when the boat moves, that is, when you and I sweat and row.

Originally Posted by RAZOR

Wes do you think the union fat cats care anything about the working man? They are much worse than the CEO's because they truly are the bloodsuckers that live off the labors, with their only concern being for themselves.
I've known some pretty good local union officers and some pretty bad national officers, some of them union. Maybe that saying, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely", is right on. I think that saying, "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", is right on too. "Separate the wheat from the chaff", is another good one.

At least the CEO's want the company to make a profit so their can be jobs for the average Joe.
I just never thought of them as being so altruistic. I know when I formed my own construction business, years and years ago, I didn't do it for the welfare of workers. I did it for the money. I saw a demand that needed to be filled, and being the opportunist that I am, I hired 12 guys to help out with labor. I gave them $6/hr starting and hoped I could make a buck an hour off each, even if I didn't help row. Then I would make $12/hour, twice what they were making, just for calling cadence and steering the boat. Furthermore, I thought that the workers would want to buy stuff with their $6 and create a new demand for some other shrewd opportunist to fill, in a healthy free enterprise system.

From that, I formed the opinion that demand, and demand alone, creates jobs and opportunity. But I could be wrong. If it is not demand, but kindness, I think GM should kindly hire a bunch of extra American workers right now because America really needs the work ...don't you?

And where do you get the idea that the working man creates all the wealth, thats laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic a statement.
Don't be so silly.
On the contrary where did you get the idea that actual work doesn't create the wealth ...a Chamber of Commerce ad? Sorry, Karl liked people that would adopt values from self-appointed authority without logical question.

Every speck of gold, every diamond, every carrot did not become wealth until somebody physically dug it from the ground. All the cadence calling, all the investment capital, all the government regulation, all the trading items back and forth, are not worth a hoot without a shovel and shoveler. But that is where we are headed as the shovels go overseas.

You will find that without labor the boat won't move and no wealth is created. Without management, the rowing won't be as efficient. Now that doesn't mean that in a boat with everybody calling cadence, that one management guy can't quit calling, sit down and write on paper, the approximate distance the boat should move according to cadence. He could call the paper a financial statement of wealth and they would all get rich. Just from management alone. Don't need no stinkin' labor. Do ya think?

Business, big and small create the wealth, and gives opportunity for the rest of us to make a living. I got to tell you Karl would be proud of you.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. See above.

I belonged to the United Steelworkers union long ago when Ohio still had numerous Steel mills that employed thousands of men and women, who made very good money and great benefits. The guys that had 20 years in were able to take 13 weeks of vacation. If we were laid off we received 95% of our normal income, both are ridiculous and the companies were stupid to capitulate to the union demands.
The mills are mostly silent today and in large part due to the Unions. My first day working at the mill I was told several times by the other workers to slow done and not do so much, the foreman called me into the office and was so surprised that I had a work ethic he told me to take a break. Many time I would witness men breaking equipment so they didn't have to work, or so they could have an early quit. Not all the workers were indolent, lazy sloths but far too many were. They were over payed and unproductive, it eventually will catch up, now those jobs don't exist around here.They killed the goose that laid the golden egg. In the beginning the Unions help make the work place safer but they turned into greedy, power grabbing crooks. The CEO's have their problems but they are petty to those of the Union fat cats.
I hope you turned all the unscrupulous graft down in a spirit of honesty. You are right, unions and workers aren't perfect. See Freds union meeting video. Neither are CEOs, corporate boards or stockholders. The problem of greed is the same everywhere, IMO. I do not see less petty or better "grades" of it. With appointed lobbyists, we've gone from runaway unionism to runaway corporatism and a lot of fal$e propoganda to make folks believe it's not true. They are both unions on opposite sides of the fence, not too consumer oriented, by the way. Figure it out.

Wes

...

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Black Mamba

Yes thank god I too am a union man. It's just too bad all the greedy F**k CEO's are sending our union jobs overseas (outsourcing is the sugar coated term) where they can employ people 168 hours a week for 10 cents an hour. That is why back in the early '90's I started avoiding buying items made and China and still go out of my way to do so. I would rather pay 20% more on a product if I know it's made here in the states or Europe... how's bout you?

Unions. Ugh. And when they are gone, I will be a happy guy. Most folks (not all) I know in unions have an attitude that sounds like "I deserve a job".

Well you don't. But what you do deserve is my respect for your right to persue happiness. So when your job finally and thankfully goes overseas where someone will be GRATEFULL to do it at a more reasonable price, I will be happy to see you go and persue another way of life that doesn't make mine more expensive.

Mike