Propagandists, Murtha, & someone on this site

[VRM]

Bernie,

With regards to hunting down Bin laden, perhaps he would not have escaped if our eyes had not been off the ball. If we had had 160K troops in Afghanistan instead of just 20K perhaps that country would not be falling apart. We now have to resort to diplomacy. If we had not invaded Iraq that diplomacy would have been a lot easier.

Nope, I don't know materiality. Perhaps you are familiar with the term 'cause and effect' or 'if/then' statements. Us engineer types use it all the time. It can be applicable to situations like this.

Unfortunately, we have a lot more incidents that you think. At last count there have been about 60 soldiers court martialed on murder related charges. And did you know that those contractors over there do not have to obey any laws? The coalition has no authority over them like they do the regular military, and they are also exempt from Iraqi authority. Blackwater, Custer-Battles, Aegis Defence Services, and Triple Canopy have been involved in controversy. Private sercurity personnel also fired on civilians, and a Marine observation post. The Marines arrested them, but they were releasd when the NCIS couldn't prosecute them. These things are front page news in many other parts of the world.

Everyone hears the stories that Americans are the most generous, just, and competent people in the world. Well, residents of Bahgdad have electricity and water a lot less often now than they did under Hussein. Right or wrong, the perception is that we destroyed them in the first place, and that we are either too incompetent or weak to remedy the situation. This is another reason that going in to Iraq was a really bad idea - there is too much infrastructure to try and secure. Afghanistan had a lot less - having electricity 3 hours a day there would actually be an improvement in many cases.

This is a war about perceptions. The Iraqis don't give a hoot what you say you know. It also does not matter what your friends or people on this forum say. That is why you have no clue about what is going on. From the average Iraqis perspective our actions are not always that of good guys, both from a governmental and an individual standpoint. Many of them think that the new government is worse than Hussein. And we prop up that government, so in their minds we end up being guilty by association.

You can say anything you want, but it does not make it true for someone else.

Steve