Moved to the Lounge (should've been here in the first place).

All let's stop being a$$holes in discussing things...Gore's enough of one already.

:cool:

Want to see the fuel line from an L-1011.....It's my top radiator hose/line..
see pics...

Oh Yeah...it's titanium.....

I was wrenching at the time of Mt. Saint Helens eruption. I made a lot of money from it, that ash just caused all kinds of car problems...

John Coleman, the founder of The Weather Channel:

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in allusion [sic] of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

...I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, ie Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped....

...

Some comments:

The methane problem from animals (and humans) isn't really a problem.
Cow eats grass, cow farts, methane is released into the air. Methane eventually and continuously breaks down into CO2 and H2O ...and is re-absorbed by the grass. Cow eats grass, farts again etc... ...net result is zero atmospheric overload, providing there is not a huge increase in the number of gassy critters on the planet. The entire process recycles itself.

So it is also true if all the carbon in fossil fuels were released, the atmosphere would just be back where it was before the ancient plants became fossils... ...when the CO2 laden planet was probably uninhabitable by humans. Plants love CO2 the way we love Oxygen.

Just think. If plants took over, on a quiet night you could not only hear metal cars rusting, but fiberglass oxidizing as well... ...from all the excess oxygen. Just kidding.

====\

I've heard the largest user of diesel fuel is the U.S. Navy ...and BNSF railroad is second. On my subdivision, we burn 1800-2400 gallons of fuel to move 32 million pounds of coal 200 miles in 12 hours. The newer locomotives normally get better fuel efficiency than those built in the '80's and earlier. On the other hand, they have far less maintainence than in the past, so it is not unusual to observe at least one severe "smoker" in a power consist. I hate to think what kind of mileage an old aircraft carrier gets.

====\

Both Global Warming from CO2 and "over-board alarmist" reports are absolutely true.

Global Warming Potential, or climate change from CO2 is true because there is no doubt that CO2 acts as a greenhouse gas by law of physics. But it might not be a problem if there is no tip-over point.

I can't think of much money motive, to be gained by alarmists. Do-gooder feeling maybe. But it is not uncommon for humans to be apprehensive, even overly apprehensive, about things that could kill us. Not much harm in being careful, even too careful. On the other hand, nobody saves lives. We can just barely postpone death if we are lucky. Then again, why push it?

But I almost can't imagine the immense degree of financial motive the petroleum industry has to foster mis-information to the masses. The phrase, "I'm from the mega-oil corporation and I'm just here to help you..." goes though my mind. Con job, no doubt. Or maybe not.

Noble prize nominee... G.W. in 2002. ( http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nobel.htm )

On the light side, something useful... Curing Hiccups: the Ig Nobel prize.
( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10207.html )

...

whether it is contrails or coal-fired powerplants or cows in the pastures, it seems that whether it's human-caused or just natural progression/regression of the earth's average temperature, we are in a generally INCREASING temperature phase. Ignore that wall of ice that marched down the continents at the start of the last ice age and you got crushed. Works the same way in reverse. Ignore the rising sealevels and get flooded. Doesn't matter if man or god or mother nature is responsible.

Good news is that apparently the ozone hole (almost certainly mankind-caused) is shrinking.

Notes for techies that actually want the truth:

1. CO2 is not a precursor for global warming (as theorized but not measured), but a post-cursor (as measured). That is, it appears AFTER a warming period (exactly why isn't clear yet, perhaps increased life as a result of more amiable temps). This simple fact will prove to be Gore's undoing.

2. YOU might not think of how to make money from global alarmists and regulation, but AlGore has indeed done so. He owns a large position in a British Carbon Offset "Investment" service/fund/scam. All of his unterlingen and usual leftist minions will find nice cushy jobs deciding who gets to use how much fuel in their cars/houses/cities/industries/countries/etc. Just another exercise in central planning by the nomenclatura, but the US will get screwed. Unlike the UN, we will have no veto vote on approving the permits.

3. Perhaps you have read about the re-granting of funds to various GloWarm supporters rather than so-called deniers? How would you like being screwed for both telling the truth and for nothing. These rich new grantees are not going to abandon their new fund-scaring schemes without some serious prompting.

4. There is indeed a great DEAL of harm and mischief in "being careful" for no defensible earthly reason, IMHFO. This process will, if unchecked, reduce the US to a 3rd world power consumer per capita... for no discernable reason except the ravings of a seriously self-mislead raving lunatic and a group of self-congratulatory science-denyers that couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag. These same contra-logical fruitcakes never seem to understand something as simple as reducing the tax rate invariably increases the amount of total taxes collected (no one knows where the lower limit exists on tax rates, but evidence shows it is perhaps less than 10% in a modern economy and perhaps in ALL economies). If they cannot figure that out from the considerable evidence now available around both the US and the world, how the bj's are they going to understand how to comprehend any causes of GloWarm that MIGHT exist in pockets about the earth?

But, perhaps you do wear both a belt and suspenders. Would you follow a Pied Piper that said the internal combusion engine will be eliminated by 2017?* Well, perhaps in ten years he will be correct; but that doesn't bode well for our precious Cobras, does it?

5. Sorry. The famous expression about "I'm just here to help you..." was/is regularly joked-about/spoken-by various governmental and liberalist alternative-government quango entities operating above the law, NOT corporations and particularly not oil corps. Oil men do not think it their task to "help" anybody any more than anyone else. But, they are very generous in their gifting to universities, churches and local charities.

6. If, rather than rant against capitalism, oil companies, science and global history, you might really want to understand both the science and the politics of this fabulously idiotic scheme of dividing and conquering the voting politic to democrat power-craving, i could be persuaded to post a few references herein.

7. Ps: i am a physicist by both long previous trade and on-going avocation and in comprehending this subject a science background with a dash of common sense will matter (quite unlike the choice of SB vs BB). GloWarm is not a matter of popular vote. It is a matter of science. Measurement, theory, proofs, probabilities and postulates are not voting matters. This is as big or bigger scam as the tulip mania in Holland in the 17th century or worse. It will make Nigerian bank fraud, Enron and Worldcom look like pure amatures.

8. Not that i am against having faith against all odds. From time to time i buy my wifey a few tickets to the lottery here in FL. She thinks it is thoughtful of me. Should i teach her otherwise or zip it? If you understand the answer to that question, you understand the second reason why scams work for most people, even "experts".

9. Being careful, in excess, does not lead us to the stars.

*http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...990847,00.html

While we are on the subject of 'money motivation', let me relay an anecdote I heard this week. Living in Austin, I have a number of friends in the music and film industries, and one just returned from two weeks in Hollywood where he had been pitching some TV show ideas.

He said that the WHOLE 'town' is currently gearing up for films, and TV shows based on 'GREEN' issues, and they see this as THE MAJOR MONEY earner for the foreseeable future!

Perhaps the UN will make Angelina Jolie their 'Ambassador for Green', or perhaps Paris Hilton in her new 'socially concerned' persona...as I said before, we are all doomed anyhow...put your foot down on that Cobra accelerator!!! (perhaps you will even run over Angelina and/or Paris!!!)

:)

Glyn

Recommended reading for the open-minded
 

Cool It, by Bjorn Lomborg
Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming and Environmentalism, Christopher Horner.

Lomborg is one of the IPCC scientists who has chosen to examine the issue from a cost/benefit perspective.

Horner's book provides not only countering arguments to the Gore lobby but also examines who stands to profit, politically and financially, from the alarmist perspective.

Both books provide food for thought.

Mike

"Outlier"
 

Yes.

Bjorn Lomborg has now been referred to by AlGore as an "outlier" or "Out Liar", as you might wish to select. AlGore means by this that Lomborg supports an opinion outside the "accepted" opinions of the IPCC.

Hey, they had a "vote" and this is a democracy, right?

One of the important managers of The Weather Channel (Dr. Heidi Cullen, Climate Expert) has proposed that these GloWar "denyers" ought to have their meteorological credentials removed or stripped by the American Meteorological Society. This would, of course, remove their presenting alternative views, as they would lose their jobs and thereby suffer for their sins.

What happened to freedom of speech in this country? Is it only available to people that criticize our fighting for Democracy in Iraq & Afghanistan and thereby protecting our economic and military interests in the Middle-East?

Is free speech only available to wackos that swear by their mothers that VP Dick Cheney was involved in a controlled-explosion of any of the 9/11 buildings/towers? Are only the Cindy Sheehans and Rosie O'Donnels allowed to present their drivel as truth and science.

(Rosie:"...Everybody knows that fire cannot melt steel!") Lord, please save me from those who would wish to save me from myself.

i offer a brief but practical quote on this GloWar mania:

"Alarm rather than genuine scientific curiosity, it appears, is essential to maintaining [GloWar] funding. And only the most senior scientists today can stand up against this alarmist gale, and defy the iron triangle of climate scientists, advocates and policymakers." Prof. Richard S. Lindzen

(Professor Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology in the Dept. of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at MIT. He has published over 250 times about these and other scientific issues. Argue with him, if you wish. See this for a brief bio: http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen.htm)

It is ALL about political power and the capture of both the Presidency and the Congress for the dems. NOTHING ELSE matters until that task is accomplished first at any cost to anyone else.