Classic Vette versus home built Cobra?
Apples to oranges.
I agree that every insurance company rates each vehicle differently. Rates are a result of the history of claims for the vehicle (potential exposure), the driving experience of the driver and his driving record and insurance company reserves. Insurance companies are required to retain billions of dollars in reserve to pay future claims. When companies lower rates due to lower than expected claims costs, they attract new customers and ultimately their exposure, read that claims, increase resulting in them raising premiums to rebuild their reserves. The thing to do is SHOP AROUND! Try to find a company that is trying to attract new customers with reduced rates. But don't be surprised when they raise your rates in a year or so due to the increased number and severity of claims that they incur from the new customers. This is the nature of the insurance cycle.
To tell you the truth, how many of us would put up millions of dollars to insure a vehicle that some guy put together in his garage with all the wrong tools and used parts he pulled out of a junked mustang? No quality control, no supervision, no inspections. How do I know that he didn't put the shock on upside down, forget to tighten down the control arm, leave the lug nuts finger tightened, use a shock that is about to fail? But I'm supposed to ASSUME he did EVERYTHING right and then put a rocket engine into it and is going to drive it like a dragster. You should get on your knees and thank God someone is willing to back your build with their billions of $$$.
If I was us, and I am, I would shut the f--k up and fly under the radar to the best of my ability and pay my insurance company and be thankful that I can even get insurance on these beasts. Each and every one of us is just one mistake from driving off a cliff, or spinning donuts in the middle of the freeway. We know what these monsters can do. The insurance companies don't.
Stop poking the bear with a stick!
We may find that whatever adjustments they make may just exclude us completely. Remember, they don't need our business, and they don't HAVE TO insure us! These things are never stolen, but they are often crashed, resulting in thousands of dollars in repairs unless another party is involved, then possibly millions. Most companies accommodate these rockets as a convenience to their loyal clients that have multiple policies with them. I have all my policies with State farm and they insure my Cobra for $630/ year with the same coverages as my three other cars. No mileage restriction, and a stated value of $40K. Am I happy? You bet!
Pay your premium and try not to kill yourself. The more accidents we get in, the more red flags go up until finally they wake up and realize that they are insuring guided missles with wheels and mostly inexperienced pilots. Guess what happens next! EXCLUSION!

Todd;
I have a policy with Grundy,and if you read my earlier posts you will see that I am not happy with my policy and I am shopping around.There can be many arguements against what I am trying to do,however so far all of the arguements adress why this reform won't work. This is the "equal protection under the law" thing. So far the lawyers agree with me. I may ultimately fail,but it won't stop me from trying.Since you mention Hagarty,let me give you my verbatim conversation with them.

Me:Do you insure kit cars?
H. Yes we do,what kind of kit car do you have sir?
Me: I have a Classic Roadsters 427 Cobra
H. We don't insure cobras sir.
Me:Oh you don't-why is that?
H.It's our policy sir we, don't insure them.
Me: O.K.I understand that but could we talk about another kit car?
H.Sure.
Me: How about a '41 Willy's fiberglass coupe,2400 lbs,350 horsepower?
H.Yes we will insure that.
Me:O.k. then take off the Willy's body and put on a cobra body.
H. Then we won't insure it.
Me:I guess the shape makes it dangerous?
H.There is no need to get sarcastic,sir.
H.I beg your pardon but I am only talking reality here and not intending to be sarcastic.There are no bad cars,only bad drivers.
H.Well we won't insure cobras.
Me: Do you know what instituted the policy?
H.We paid out a big claim on an accident involving a cobra and the company does not want to assume the risk.
Me:What risk do they ever assume?
H. Beg pardon?
Me:Pardon me for saying so but insurance companies never lose money. They get your money up front for providing a service that once you use it,you get penalized by a higher rate. If they have a big claim that they can't avoid paying,they raise everyone's rates to cover it.When it comes to catastrophic loss like Hurricane Katrina, They apply for a Federal bailout. Where's the risk?
H.Goodbye sir.
Todd,there needs to be a standard for each state so that this kind of goofy b.s.is a thing of the past.These companies know nothing about the hobby and that drives the idiocy.

They refuse to insure my liability while driving my cobra! Thanks for proving my point.

It's not FREE enterprise if the law requires you to have it.

Ever see a pic of a 41 willys stacked up against a guard rail? Me neither!
Once again, apples to oranges!

I had 3 cars insured thru Hagerty for years , then several years ago they grandfathered Cobra's already covered but reduced liability to state minimums - which where i was equalled about zippo . At the same time they stopped handling NEW cobra replica applications .

They told me they had high claim payout ratios on Cobra replicas and one where a cobra went out of control, drove into a house, killed one ( or two - dont recall ) people , totalled the car and did serious damage to the house . Their payout on that claim was in the millions as all covered inclusions got max'd out . Hence, no more Cobra replicas .

Another carrier told me that cobra replicas accounted for about 4% of his total portfolio but accounted for nearly 40% of their claims prior year . therein is your answer - simple biz decision . One way to attempt to max your earnings is to minimize your expenses - highest most costly type of vehicles get the axe , and Cobra replicas fit that category ! Insurers are not in this biz for exercise, but rather to make money. In a down economic environment their outside investment opportunities are usually less too, hence stricter controls on what they insure .

One by one others started raising rates, dropping Cobra replicas, requiring stiffer guidelines/policy deducts etc etc . the trend will continue .

I had to switch from Hagerty to someone else due to their revised Cobra policies . Clean record- no tix , several years of ownership history, no claims . Hagerty said ' leave the other two with us ' . naw, whoever covers the cobra gets the other 2 cars as well .

My SPF costs more to insure by itself than my other two cars combined which in total are valued higher than the SPF . You know why that is !! if not, start over and read this again .

It gets harder and harder to insure these things , and will continue that trend . One carrier told me of their Cobra replica claims , the vast majority were owned less than one year and were higher horsepower engines - ie,driver inexperience with high power to weight vehicles . Hence, some insurers will not cover you unless you can show you have driven ( not owned, but DRIVEN ) your Cobra for 1 or 2 years while insured with someone else !!

Good luck in your effort . B

Wise words by jhv48 above. Much as we would like to, we cannot expect to have our cars classified and treated the same as FACTORY BUILT classic cars. And Killer, if you think kit car drivers can muster a powerful lobby, think for a minute about the lobbying power of the insurance industry if we push and they decide to push back. Close scrutiny of our hobby will reveal exactly what was described above. If the insurance companies got motivated, they (or any other credible, relevant institution) could initiate the kind of scrutiny and regulation of us and our cars that could shut the replica/kit car industry down for good. It is an amazing bit of luck that, given the extent of the big brotherism and litigation-happiness in today's society, we are even allowed to build and drive these things on public roads. I enjoy a good, worthwhile battle as much as anybody else, but as someone rightly stated above, consider carefully the potential outcome before you start poking that sleeping bear.

If Safeway doesn't carry the type of milk you want to buy, do you call the FDA and lodge a complaint or just go across the street to another store that does stock it and buy it there?

part of the proposed legislation will be that home built or modified cars be inspected by an independent and certified auto technician to catch builder's mistakes and to forestall the arguement that homebuilt or amateur built cars are unsafe. Unlike the auto insurance industry's paragon of safety-the factory built car.Some of those that come to mind are exploding pinto and explorer gas tanks (insert here all of the safety recalls you can remember).
Remember,they have to insure us and treat us fairly if the law requires them to do so.You can do what you want in your state,but I prefer to fight the bear.

Vette Killer;

I applaud your tanacity to fight this thing you think is wrong, but, in the end,you know what you wil accomplish?????????

You may indeed cause most, if not all insurance companies to quit insuring ALL "kit cars"...........No big deal to me, I don't have one, I do have 2 65 Mustangs though.........

Paid my yearly premium this week on the 65 Fastback. I have an agrreed-on value policy,6 figure limits and NO deductable on comp or coll.,2,500 mile yearly driving limit (I can go to 5000 miles if need be), and get a 10% deduction yearly cause in 12 years I have never had to file a claim (thankfully) and I'm very happy to pay $172.00 a year to them....

As much as you may not agree with the above statement and think you are being wronged, IT'S THE GOD'S HONEST TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

Just because you didn't see a '41 willys piled up doesn't mean it didn't happen.
What you seem to be telling me is that a 2,000lb 500 horse cobra is more dangerous (to some degree) than a 2,000lb 500 horse something else,(say ,a '32 ford roadster) I just don't buy it.
Milk is one thing, insurance is quite another to me, but all of your arguements have merit and I very much appreciate all of your points of view.As things stand right now the Mt.State Insurance commisioner's office is in the process of researching this question.I do not intent to push very hard but I have left it in their hands. I didn't mention it before,but any legislation would also include hot rods,customs and scratch built cars as well.

Good luck!
 

CHOMP!!! MUNCH...CRUNCH...BUUUUUUUUURRRRP!!!
http://mrhs.wsd3.org/media/images/Grizzly.jpg

I'm not a lawyer, but I do not agree with the above statement or think it is correct.......My understanding is the law requires you to insure your vehicle, the insurance companies offer insurance to people, they set the rates (dictated in part by each states insurance commision) and decide which vehicles they will and will not insure....

I know of a number of insurance companies that WILL NOT insure any kind of motorcycle, I don't know of any law against that!!!!!!! Never heard of any company getting sued for refusing to insure a certain type of vehicle or motorcycle..........

David

Couple of things really frost my ass...

1. Folks who don't think enough of us to join until they decide to get on a phuking soapbox and are looking for support. Then we become best buddies.

2. Folks who talk about the phuking law who know nothing about the phuking law.

I also don't like folks who call employees of companies and start dicking with the poor employee over some company policy, and then brag about it with a conversation transcript to show how phuking cool they are.

Lawyers (at least those outside of Montana) don't use the term "equal protection under the law" foir non-criminal or non-governmental action situations. There is no Constitutional guarantee of insurance. If insurance premiums are based on anything under Title VII (race, color, sex, being a bunghole bandit, disability, religion, etc.), then there is a case of discrimination. There is no such classification protection based upon the size of one's ass or whether someone is an ass.

I'd really love to see it when someone makes a case based upon what phuking car one drives...then someone will try to make a case based upon BB v. SB or what mfg was used.

There are state laws requiring insurance companies who do business in a particular state to provide particular types of insurance if they want to keep doing business in that state. That is generally based on making sure natural disasters are covered. Cobras are not a natural disaster.

We've had this conversation around here several times...amongst regulars...and after a few dozen pages, it always comes back to the need for our own hobby to start a safety and standards program, rather than buck up against private business that can decide (legally) to write us all off in a heartbeat.

I'm also moving this particular POS to the Lounge...

Barny:
Onsome level you are correct.Whether you call the vette a classic,a sports car or vintage or call the cobra a kit car, replica or hot rod. I was speaking of the type:two seat fiberglass roadster,v-8 engine. In that I am correct.Sort of like chevy van vs. ford van or chevy station wagon vs ford station wagon and so on.You my choose to see a vast difference here and I do not.

I was wondering when our resident "legal eagle" would step in with his .02 cents on the matter;) ;) ;) ............

BTW Jamo: I wholeheartedly agree with ya......but where is the expected "bite me".........;) ;) ;) ;)

David

Jamo;
Such anger,such anxiety. I didn't mean to upset you so.This is only a thread about a concept and I don't think there is any danger of me being your best buddy. I was just being polite is all and now I have your opinion which is what I was seeking.No big deal,no worries. If you are as correct as you think you are,and you very well may be correct,then why get so excited?
Actually a self-imposed safety program is a great idea.I just don't see the need to be insulting and dismissive because you disagree.

David;
I don't believe it has ever been challenged.

Read it again...I don't like this site being used by folks with their own agenda (whatever it may be and whether I or others agree with it or not) when they otherwise didn't participate here beforehand and add someting to the site.

Do you normally walk up to groups of folks you don't know and start spewing whatever it is you're excited about? And how dismissive were you to the insurance carrier's employee?

Also, had you bothered to do a search, you would have found previous discussions about insurance. Obviously, you presumed we're all a bunch of morons and you are the first to think about it. That in and of itself, was insulting!

And stop making statements about the law...you don't know enough about it, and it pains me personally when someone makes assinine statements. That insulted me!

Hostility...yup, for trolls of all types. By making the whiney reference you did, you come off sounding more like a druid from Marin than someone from Jersey or Montana.

Now...you want to hang around and be a part of this place, great...welcome. Tell us about your car and you. We're people too...we like to be kissed and cuddled first.

:cool:

Thank You!

That wasn't aimed at me was it?