700 Billion?? To who??

[bomelia]

Add that to the Fannie & Freddie debacle and we are up to almost a trillion.

WTF? Someone estimated that we are talking about $20,000 per tax paying houshold. And wtf do I get out of it? Or you? Do I get a photo (a la Sally Struthers Children fund) of my own personal wealthy CEO who gets to keep his job? And go on vacations, and buy new cars? Instead of going to debtors prison?

If they do this, they will only forstall the problem. If they let them go under, then there will be a mess of immeasurable proportions. But the mess will only get bigger when there are not consequences to one's actions.

If they do give them the trillion, do I get ownership in these companies? Stock? Or just a bigger tax bill?

I smell HUGE revolt on the horizon. Enough is enough.

Mike

[VRM]

Mike, I agree.
I hate regulation of any sort, but there is a point where a system needs to be put in place to prevent people from making a mess.
Rather than offer a bailout to companies (what is the term for corporate socialism?) Congress should re-regulate the industry. Nothing painfully oppressive, as that can curtail growth and profits. But I think that banks should be required to hold the loans they sell for at least a few years.
The other thing we might do that some others have talked about is offer the current fed rate for loans. That would allow people to refinance and not default on their loans, as well as give businesses access to cheap cash. This is not my plan, and I do not know if there would even be enough loot to cover what everyone would want (provided that the loans would get approved).

Anybody got any better ideas? I am not en economist, and while I think I understand the problem better than the average guy on the street, that is probably still not saying much.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Mike, I agree.
I hate regulation of any sort, but there is a point where a system needs to be put in place to prevent people from making a mess.
Rather than offer a bailout to companies (what is the term for corporate socialism?) Congress should re-regulate the industry. Nothing painfully oppressive, as that can curtail growth and profits. But I think that banks should be required to hold the loans they sell for at least a few years.
The other thing we might do that some others have talked about is offer the current fed rate for loans. That would allow people to refinance and not default on their loans, as well as give businesses access to cheap cash. This is not my plan, and I do not know if there would even be enough loot to cover what everyone would want (provided that the loans would get approved).

Anybody got any better ideas? I am not en economist, and while I think I understand the problem better than the average guy on the street, that is probably still not saying much.

Steve

The $700 Billion may or may not be the way to go - the key point is the buy price - for example, if a mortgage backed security of $1,000,000 par value has a current discounted price of $800,000 will the Treasury buy that security at market and is the market price realistic? If that is the case, that security may be worth par some day in the future - therefore the Government will receive interest on that security, plus a capital gain. In theory, the current market price reflects what is happened within the pool of mortgages that make up the mortgage backed security, but that may or may not be the case - so, even buying at current market is risky business.

On the other hand, if the Treasury is buying at par, not at market - someone is taking all of us for a ride to hell.

A better plan is to not buy any securities from entities in trouble, open the Fed discount window and allow those institutions to borrow needed funds at the current 2.00% rate. That will allow them to generate needed liquidity to make loans and more time to work out the mortgage backed securities problems - and take any hit on the value of those securities over time, versus the citizens of America taking the hit. Now, when and if an institution or two goes down partly due to no bailout, that's the breaks and they can go straight to hell.

Buying or bailing out is pure socialism.

[Silverback51]

Those that are responsible need to pay.

Unfortunately the CEO's of large corporations are like a bunch of inbred idiots. They all serve on the board of directors of other corporations so they all take care of each other. There is no oversight.

Hopefully if this happens the government will hold them accountable and their golden parachutes will go away.

[cobra bill]

They tried this same bail out just before the depression, Hoover and his cronies asked for the same bail out for the banks, and it FAILED the Japanese tried the same thing in the 80'S and it too failed, this is just to bail out the fat cats at the expense of the tax payers, been there done that got the T shirt! we should not make this mistake again.
I agree with VRM, they will not learn a thing from it, it will only give them incentive to do it all over again.

[bomelia]

I heard the dems wanna use the same money for the people at the bottom. That sucks too. In any event, we all get screwed.

Just think! $20,000 per tax paying houshold. And that is prolly on the low end. Screw them.

Mike

I hope everone is sending emails to their reps.

[Ronbo]

It's funny when people talk of "regulating" Fannie and Freddy when that's exactly what these organisations were.

Worked real well didn't it?

I also haven't heard how this bail-out is going to get people back in their houses they lost...

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I also haven't heard how this bail-out is going to get people back in their houses they lost...

They 'lost' them because they couldn't pay for them.

They are the root cause of this mess. The 5% of homeowners that were/are being foreclosed on because they were/are defaulting.

What ? The 95% that have/are paying in full and on time should give them a 'free' house to replace the one they 'lost' ?

[bomelia]

Root cause? I would say the root cause would be regulations (relaxed) that allowed people to get these houses. American Dream for all! Now its an American Nightmare. Used to be you had to have 20% down. No ifs, ands, or buts. It showed you new how to manage your money. Now, no downpayment and waived PMI. 110% home equity loans. No questions asked. Credit cards out the yazoo.

Its hard to get into this kind of trouble when regulations make it difficult to do so. Remove the barriers, and this is what happens.

Mike

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

They tried this same bail out just before the depression, Hoover and his cronies asked for the same bail out for the banks, and it FAILED the Japanese tried the same thing in the 80'S and it too failed, this is just to bail out the fat cats at the expense of the tax payers, been there done that got the T shirt! we should not make this mistake again.
I agree with VRM, they will not learn a thing from it, it will only give them incentive to do it all over again.

Cobra Bill, it is because the goverment did NOT bail out the banks that the infamous run on the banks resulted in the crash and depression. I am undecided on what should happen here. I can hardly get my head wrapped around the problem, let alone the proposed solution. These are different times (than ~1929). I rememeber the whole country freaking out when Reagan considered loaning Chrysler 2 billion dollars (turned out good, huh?) Investing 700billion dollars in assets worth zero dollars is something ORDERS of magnitude different. What will be the inflationary impact of printing THAT much money?

I for one will be looking at purchasing some of these "assets". So should the rest of us. Pennies on the dollar. I just want to "own" something out of this deal. There is an opportunity here.

Mike

[PANAVIA]

Get nervous when the news casters say "Half-a-Tril" like its no big deal.

[427 S/O]

Correct Mike, Charles Payne was on fox business this morning and suggested 'bailout' should be replaced with 'investment', which it is!. Sure, the homes won't bring original sales price but, they will be purchased for close to market price by millions of people who must 'really' qualify first!. 'there is an opportunity here', absolutely. Again, if anyone has the means, now is the time to seriously consider purchasing.

[Ron61]

In November they are going to have an auction of properties at the courthouse steps in Redding. One of them is an area that has several lots and about 10 houses in various stages of construction. This could be a good buy for anyone with the money. They haven't decided if they will auction it off by lots or the whole sub-division. I think they would do better by doing it by the lot as more people would be bidding on a single lot or one with a partially built home on it than the whole sub-division. Also several other homes and business buildings will be up for sale from what I have read.
As Joe and Mike said, a good time for anyone with some money to pick up some good places at market value or maybe even less around here.

Ron

[cobra bill]

There's no doubt there will be opportunity here for those with money, I heard yesterday listening to an expert on wall street that if they brought back the tax that was eliminated on stock transactions, it could pay for itself in a few years, literally wall street could bail themselves out! it seems that the tax was producing 1 percent of GNP at its peak, and the tax was in place to pay for the FCC budget, so with so much money coming in they decided to cancel the tax, and that led to un-fettered speculation in the market, the bailout is 4% of GNP it would not take long to pay for itself, and it would serve to slow the speculation. I forget what the actual percentage is but it works out to 25cents for every $100 trade, and the largest stock market in the world has it, the London stock exchange, Any way I think we need to call our representatives and tell them NOT to take this deal, we are being rushed into this with no for-thought to the consequences of our actions, if we are going to give wall street a trillion dollars they better have proof it will work!

[Ron61]

Bill,

When was the last time that any of our politicians ever looked farther ahead than to what they could gain from doing something? If they had listened to the people that knew and tried to warn them of this coming disaster four or five years ago, most if not all of this could have been averted.

Ron

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Bill,

When was the last time that any of our politicians ever looked farther ahead than to what they could gain from doing something? If they had listened to the people that knew and tried to warn them of this coming disaster four or five years ago, most if not all of this could have been averted.

Ron

OK point taken, but I think it's high time we hold their feet to the fire, and I guess the key word there is fire, as in your all fired if you don't fix this mess in an intelligent manner and hold the people that caused this accountable, I want to see prison time for these clowns!

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

OK point taken, but I think it's high time we hold their feet to the fire, and I guess the key word there is fire, as in your all fired if you don't fix this mess in an intelligent manner and hold the people that caused this accountable, I want to see prison time for these clowns!

That may include Obama. He was the second biggest recipient of political contributions from Fannie and Freddie (behind Dodd) and the second biggest (behind Clinton) from Lehman Bros. What did he do for them?

[cobra bill]

Fine if someone can come up with concrete evidence, I'm all for it! but the same could be said for McCain, and his cronies that are running his campaign, that are still getting paid by Fannie

[imagine2frolic]

700billion is just another scare tactic to get his way. He claims if it is not done immediatley there will be chaos. Same guy that claimed just several months ago the economy was stable, and just a little bump in the road.

There should be people going to jail over this. They have managed to rape & pillage this country. Merril Lynch gave it's CEO last year 83+million, and look at it's condition today. The system is so broken it needs to be tore down, and rebuilt

[cobra bill]

Well it shows that lots of politicians on both parties were given money by Fannie and Freddie, but who voted to remove oversight?