Space Junk To Orbit For Many Years

[Ron61]

If they don't find a way to get rid of some of this it will soon be impossible to send anything above this level.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090213/...5hYmS.IKFsaMYA

Ron

[Tommy]

Consider this. If we fill the sky with enough space debris, it will block enough sunlight to stop global warming. Then the crowd that believes the Earth is never supposed to change from the way it was when they were young will have to complain about something else.

[Ron61]

Tommy,

Then they will start about us creating a Global Winter and I bet Al Gore will be at the head of the line.

Ron

[Wes Tausend]

...

Geez, Ron.

I wonder if this threatens Hubble?

I suppose this was bound to happen sooner or later. There is no way, IMO, that they can keep track of all the debris that happens to stay in orbit; and even if they could, nothing can be done about it now ...yet.

Now we need a commercial Space Waste Management Service to "sweep" the streets ...er orbits.

The real 2010 Space Odyssey. Figures that would be one of the first actual jobs up there, eh?

Probably won't pay much, the mafia will get involved, and if you fall off the truck, stop-to-stop, you're really, really screwed.

Wes


...

[Ron61]

Wes,

I saw on one of the science programs the other day that they are even now building the replacement for Hubble and it will be built with redundant systems as they are going to put it in an orbit that is 1,000,000 miles high and therefore won't be able to get to it to work on it. If they can do that, why can't they land on Mars?

Ron

[Wes Tausend]

...

Originally Posted by Ron61

Wes,

I saw on one of the science programs the other day that they are even now building the replacement for Hubble and it will be built with redundant systems as they are going to put it in an orbit that is 1,000,000 miles high and therefore won't be able to get to it to work on it. If they can do that, why can't they land on Mars?

Ron

Elementary, my dear Ron. All that red dust.

You know how easily dust is attracted to lenses.

Wes


...

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

...

Geez, Ron.

I wonder if this threatens Hubble?

I suppose this was bound to happen sooner or later. There is no way, IMO, that they can keep track of all the debris that happens to stay in orbit; and even if they could, nothing can be done about it now ...yet.

Now we need a commercial Space Waste Management Service to "sweep" the streets ...er orbits.

The real 2010 Space Odyssey. Figures that would be one of the first actual jobs up there, eh?

Probably won't pay much, the mafia will get involved, and if you fall off the truck, stop-to-stop, you're really, really screwed.

Wes


...

Actually, they do keep track of every object large enough to observe. I developed software systems that did that very thing way back when I was in the North American Air Defense Command in the mid 1970s. What makes the job manageable is that the orbit of an object will not change rapidly unless it has maneuvering thrusters or it hits something. So, once you know the orbit of an object, you can predict its future path with a high degree of accuracy. .... BTW, there's plenty of room up there unless you want to put your satellite in the very same popular orbit other people already use.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

...



Elementary, my dear Ron. All that red dust.

You know how easily dust is attracted to lenses.

Wes


...

Wes,

When I was referring to them sending the telescope 1,000,000 miles out, what I meant is if they can do that, why can't they land probes and people on Mars with any regularity as it is so much closer. Maybe use politicians for the first people so they could have a Govt established when the working class gets there.

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

But Ron, if they send only politicians to Mars and no working class, then how are the politicians supposed to survive? No one will be there to do anything that needs to be done to keep life...

Ohhhhhhhhhh, never mind. How many can fit in a space ship at 1 time?

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Actually, they do keep track of every object large enough to observe. I developed software systems that did that very thing way back when I was in the North American Air Defense Command in the mid 1970s. What makes the job manageable is that the orbit of an object will not change rapidly unless it has maneuvering thrusters or it hits something. So, once you know the orbit of an object, you can predict its future path with a high degree of accuracy. .... BTW, there's plenty of room up there unless you want to put your satellite in the very same popular orbit other people already use.

Tommy,

That does shed a different light on things. Pretty cool. While I posted mostly in jest, I did wonder what was being done to protect some of our more critical objects. Apparently, then, of these two satellites, one of them was first. Then shortly (or belatedly) after the second made orbit, it could, or was, determined there would likely be a collision. Almost sinister. A little sneakier than China's 2007 anti-satellite missile test. Can anyone shed a little more light on things?

For the debris, I suppose it really always depends on the violence of the collision. Were they going the same direction, which would imply nearly identical velocity(think 5mph bumper), or were they at right angles to one another or even opposite vectors. Opposite seems unlikely since most orbits are more easily achieved by being enhanced by planet rotation.

I imagined that some of the high velocity debris may be the size and mass of a tire valve cap. Much of the debris should fall out of orbit because of new unfavorable trajectories. But I find it hard to believe that small, shotgun pellet sized debris could be tracked. In spite of tracking and sparcity of objects, there seems at least a slight additional danger of more impacts that can only get worse.

Originally Posted by Ron

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend
...

Elementary, my dear Ron. All that red dust.

You know how easily dust is attracted to lenses.

Wes

...

Wes,

When I was referring to them sending the telescope 1,000,000 miles out, what I meant is if they can do that, why can't they land probes and people on Mars with any regularity as it is so much closer. Maybe use politicians for the first people so they could have a Govt established when the working class gets there.

Ron

I know better, Ron. I was just having fun since your original wording conjured up visions of a really expensive scope hopelessly covered in dust. Not that they would ever make a foolish scope error.

I think Mars is 35 to 36 million miles out(varies), instead of 1 million. It will be easier to quickly communicate with a satellite that is closer and it only need be clear of planet atmospheric effects for clarity. But further out enhances the ability to view a distant object from two more widely separated angles (Parallax displacement: opposite points on the orbit circle) which helps determine true distance.

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

But Ron, if they send only politicians to Mars and no working class, then how are the politicians supposed to survive? No one will be there to do anything that needs to be done to keep life...

Ohhhhhhhhhh, never mind. How many can fit in a space ship at 1 time?

Joe,

I think you've already hit upon it. It might be easier to ship politicians. They cannot help but take their own hot air with ...and they are like clowns and can be packed very tightly. And, of course, the soil will be very fertile by the time workers arrive.

Wes


...

[Joe Wicked]

Wes,
Just realized 1 flaw in the theory. If the ground is fertile, then the politicians will have contributed something useful to society and we all know that is not going to happen.

[Ron61]

Wes,

There is also quite a bit of larger debris in that orbit. Some old burned out rocket engines and such. We really need to develop a way to get some of it down or on out into space as more is added almost every launch of a satellite.
My remark about sending the politicians to Mars was a tongue in cheek thing. Why ruin a perfectly good planet before any people even get there.

Ron

[imagine2frolic]

Satellite debris means a couple of things. All these people who drive around with TOM TOMS will be lost, and I better learn celestial navigation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......i2f

[427 S/O]

You might find this interesting, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, any foreign made object landing on your property from space, is subject to U.S. import laws. You must file an entry summery and pay all required duties and fees subject to tariff classification.

[Ron61]

And to think that we missed our chance to have the Russians bring the Mir Space Station down on Washington D.C. Preferably when Congress was in session.

Ron

[Wes Tausend]

...

I can see it all.
Guy my age, retired and serenely fishing off shore, on a quiet bright sunny morning.
Suddenly there is this huge whoosh.
And then fish floating on the surface all around.
Glowing fish...

Wes

...

[Ron61]

Wes,

Do you remember the TV Program Northern Exposure? In one episode they had the woman fliers boyfriend get killed by a falling satellite and they had a casket with holes all over it for the left over antennas to stick through.

Ron