A Fuzzy Thread

[cobra bill]

http://www.indecisionforever.com/vid...videoId=224789

[Fred Douglass]

....nonetheless, I'm ecstatic that there seems to have been a climate-change.........what could have brought it on?

[Jamo]

Fred...you just don't seem to get it. Nothing's changed. What this thread has been about is an exercise of discussing polarizing issues without personal attacks.

Your intermittent lurking here with your cute little ego-based jabs has thus far been an annoyance...don't let it grow beyond that.

Any more of your commentary about how this Forum is moderated (again, read the sticky...it ain't open to discussion...period), and you'll be discussing it with yourself for a period of time.

The thread can and will continue without you. I'm sure this will immediately trigger your martyr persona...so be it.

[Fred Douglass]

Yikes! I actually don't "lurk", JAMO. Nor am I ego-driven. But you MIGHT note, I am not the one waxing personal nor proffering mischaracterizations and threats. If denigrate me (and my posts) you must, then.....you must. My skin is thick enuff to handle this trivial stuff. First, however take a look at my original "offence" then measure that against what you have sent my way, eh? My original padlock was earned in reference to the closing down of threads----by ALL the editors.

Pacis vobiscum,

[computerworks]

As the keeper of the Icon Treasure Chest, I can settle this part of the discussion.

There is no need for us "geek-types" to spend an ounce of time creating a "badge of dishonor" for those that are repeat offenders.

You see, a repeat offender will be shown the door for good, thus no profile will remain to display any padlocks or other garnish.

aaar-aaar.



(oh.... and "oooooo-gah") (note - check spelling)

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by computerworks

As the keeper of the Icon Treasure Chest, I can settle this part of the discussion.

There is no need for us "geek-types" to spend an ounce of time creating a "badge of dishonor" for those that are repeat offenders.

You see, a repeat offender will be shown the door for good, thus no profile will remain to display any padlocks or other garnish.

aaar-aaar.



(oh.... and "oooooo-gah") (note - check spelling)

What about at least a LIBERAL badge when it's deserving as a warning to other members and society in general? Think of the time allocated to it as a community service. Afterall, this is a Cobra site and true liberals don't own Cobra's so they are just here to pull our chain. Those that do own Cobra's must be really confused, even that is deserving of a warning.

Actually, I wish that there was a Cobra Club vest with lots of badges, something like the Hell's Angels have.

[Jamo]

Fred

Glad I got your attention...no further need for you (or anyone else) to comment on how we moderate. We are response driven.

Thanks.

Back to the thread.

[Jamo]

CdC

Totally agree with you...there has been no gay bashing as far as I'm concerned. Some humor and frank discussion...and that's all we ask.

Thanks to both you and Steve. Extremely well done on presenting both sides of the issue.

[trularin]

Dang this is turning into a two bagger. I hate those little kernels at the bottom of the bag.

[Ron61]

Then quit being so cheap and buy another bag.

Ron

[computerworks]

....no....

[Jamo]

He's getting some time to think about it.

[bomelia]

I dunno what the stats for marriages in Alabama are (some are shotgun, but heh, we are in the South). But I do unequivocaly know the number of gay marriages in Alabama: zero.

Just like Miss California, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman (no matter how horrific she may be).

I do think that the privilege to be married should be revokable (as well as having kids). The crap I see in the local and national news proves me correct everyday. But the lawyers would appose that.

Here is a test for you. If you are 40 and up, what was your view of gays back in 1980-1985? Thats when AIDS became an issue and is why I picked that time frame. I remember well the general attitude (though it was wrong). Back then, I would dare say (if you were even thinking about it) that the idea of Gay Marriage (we would have called it something else) would have been shot down universally across the country. What has changed? Have we become more enlightened? No. All that has happened is related to indoctrination in schools and the the byproducts of political correctness. Its called the Liberal Agenda. Pelosi and Clinton could care less about gays and more about the Big Tent theory of voters. It works. But in the process, you sell your soul to the devil. Gay Marriage does not derive from any useful principle (for human kind). It is a luxury afforded to rich societies.

I am not opposed to civil unions. They make sense. If they grant participants the same privileges as heteros. If not, then they need to be fixed. If that does not satisfy gay people, then you know it is more about FORCING acceptance than anything else. And I simply will not do that.

Mike

[bomelia]

BTW, I am not anti-gay. I could care less. Two of my extended family members are gay. Maybe its genetic and one day I will wake up thinking Brad Pitt looks better than my GF Angelina Jolie. I doubt it, but who knows. Fine with me. But what angers me the most is completely embodied in Perez Hilton's question to Miss California. The friggin nerve of that guy. And the unbelieveable courage of that young woman. She could have cow-toed to that idiot and prolly won the whole thing. But her principles were more important to her. Its people like her who will lead us into a new time of reason.

Perez Hilton represents EVERYTHING I despise about the liberalization of the gay issue. He is an a$$hole.

Mike

[bomelia]

Do I have ANY control oever my Fuzzy thread? I don't want to talk about gay people anymore.

I wanna talk about Obama "releasing" "torture" memos, and NOW, photos of detainees. And Obama says that he is "not interested in persuing war crimes investigations". Bunk! He is a political hack like all the rest of thim. This is about consolidation of power. This is about insuring that Democrats maintain power for as long as possible. This is about destroying the two party system. He is about to set a prescedent unlike any other president in this country. Use your power to put you opponents in jail. This crap goes on here in Alabama. I hate it. Every sitting Governor eventually gets prosecuted. It sucks.

The Walls are being errected again. Divisions in our security apparatus are happening. The military is getting chopped. And Bin Laden and others are watching on the side lines. It won't happen now, but it will happen again. We will get attacked again because our POTUS is more concerend with power consolidation than the lives of his fellow Americans. He should be impeached for his selective release of documents.

Gotta go, thought I heard the sounds of a helicopter in my back yard....

Mike

[Jamo]

We can't guarantee that a thread will stay on track...much of that has to do with the thread-starter's involvement and powers of persuasion.

However...you did just ask the following question: Here is a test for you. If you are 40 and up, what was your view of gays back in 1980-1985?

As it turns out, during that time period I was working for a multi-state agricultural association, basically doing what I do now except for "members" rather than "clients." Obviously, the organization was (and is) ultra-conservative...to the right of the Farm Bureau. My legal secretary was a gay man who had served in Vietnam and had wounds and honors signifying his extraordinary service to this country. Fastest damn typist I've ever had (IBM typewriters in those days).

It was during that period that my current position regarding gays was formulated...again, for me it has little to do with our own individual morals and value judgements, and everything to do with folks...all folks...being able to secure the same benefits and security. See, this guy and his partner (another Viet Vet) had adopted several orphans during the sunset of our time in Southeast Asia, and had brought them back to give them a shot at life. They had more than a few problems with insurance coverage and retirement beneficiary designations back then, and always were asked a few extra questions when applying for day care, etc.

So, for every perception based on fornicating rabid sodomizers, you have folks whose perceptions are based on something else...like mine.

As to HIV and AIDS, I've obviously had to deal with the legal ramifications of it at the workplace for the past 30 years, and most certainly under the ADA when it came to be. Yup...pissed me off then that whole groups of folks were just plain stupid and brought this hell upon society...gays, Haitians, monkey-phukers, IV drug users and swingers from the 70s.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Jamo

We can't guarantee that a thread will stay on track...much of that has to do with the thread-starter's involvement and powers of persuasion.

However...you did just ask the following question: Here is a test for you. If you are 40 and up, what was your view of gays back in 1980-1985?

As it turns out, during that time period I was working for a multi-state agricultural association, basically doing what I do now except for "members" rather than "clients." Obviously, the organization was (and is) ultra-conservative...to the right of the Farm Bureau. My legal secretary was a gay man who had served in Vietnam and had wounds and honors signifying his extraordinary service to this country. Fastest damn typist I've ever had (IBM typewriters in those days).

It was during that period that my current position regarding gays was formulated...again, for me it has little to do with our own individual morals and value judgements, and everything to do with folks...all folks...being able to secure the same benefits and security. See, this guy and his partner (another Viet Vet) had adopted several orphans during the sunset of our time in Southeast Asia, and had brought them back to give them a shot at life. They had more than a few problems with insurance coverage and retirement beneficiary designations back then, and always were asked a few extra questions when applying for day care, etc.

So, for every perception based on fornicating rabid sodomizers, you have folks whose perceptions are based on something else...like mine.

As to HIV and AIDS, I've obviously had to deal with the legal ramifications of it at the workplace for the past 30 years, and most certainly under the ADA when it came to be. Yup...pissed me off then that whole groups of folks were just plain stupid and brought this hell upon society...gays, Haitians, monkey-phukers, IV drug users and swingers from the 70s.

I only brought the 80' s era because of the radically different way gays were percieved then. I still do not consider marriage a "right". It is certainly an institution that is for the most part denied to gay people. But it was my sincere hope that "civil unions" would be the key. There is such angst on this issue that it would not suprize me if the very institution itself would be dismantled in favor of civil unions for all. Gay people want to be accepted as normal "units" of society. With regards to "minorities", the one way to become a group not classified as a minority is to increase one's population fraction. Blacks could easily do this over time by having children at an astonishing rate. But gays cannot do this. Not on a national level. They will always be a minority. Thus, they are not normal, or normalizable. But that is not what we hear in the news. To me, the gay cry for normalcy and acceptance is silly. But it is dangerous too. The only way for them to achieve this is through abnormal political power. More power than heteros will ever have. And with each concession we grant, they indeed are gaining political power not commensurate with their popluation fraction.

Granting marriage to gays is getting us closer to a situation where aour political system will become a true Democracy... something our fore-fathers never intended. Next, they will be competing with hetero partners that want to adopt children! Why not? They are married! Where does this lunacy stop? It does not stop. Not until the inmates are running the asylum.

Mike

[Jamo]

Now, as to the issue of demonizing the previous administration...

Unfortunately, it seems that every leader of a state either bases his or her standing by praising the predecessor, or trashing the high holy hell out of him or her. The ancient folks would go so far as to scratch their names off temple pillars, so it ain't nuthin new. But you're right...pulling a Carter-style witch hunt against the intelligence community is about as assinine a move as can be contemplated. It left us naked during the 80s, again in the 90s and it'll result in loss of intelligencel going forward.

I'm not sure if Obama is being pulled by Pelosi et al or whether he's playing us by trying to make it look like he isn't in favor of it. He may very well see his own future in seeing what the morons are going to be doing against the Bush Administration. Bush's folks (and the Congress at that time) barely scratched the surface of Clinton's sticky wicket, so the present power-holders can't really argue an eye-for-an-eye as they move forward.

It was (and is) a war...

[Jamo]

Certainly valid points. Tough issue for a lot of reasons.

[VRM]

Mike, what exactly is 'normal' and who decides? That whole definition really sounds very socialist to me. Does everybody have to fit into someones definition of 'normal'? Blacks are a minority - and they did not have the same rights as whites did for a long time. 100 years ago Women were not a minority and they still didn't have the same rights.

If it was a true democracy then a majority would be able to oppress any minority they wanted to whatever degree they wanted. That sorta sounds like what the GOP is trying to do to gays...

And the 80s were a good choice. I was working in hospitals doing electronics and such,and had to go in a bunch of wards in various hospitals where people with AIDS were kept. I had to go through a lot of medical training in order to be working on the equipment, and one of the things I had to learn was infectious disease transmission types. The paranoia involving gays/AIDS was vastly overblown by the type of people who thought that even being in the same building as a gay person would get you infected.

Steve