Somali Pirate under a flag of truce?

[Excaliber]

Ron Kuby, a New York-based civil rights lawyer, said... (about the pirate captured and now enroute to NY for prosecution),

"I think in this particular case, there's a grave question as to whether America was in violation of principles of truce in warfare on the high seas," said Kuby. "This man seemed to come onto the Bainbridge under a flag of truce to negotiate. He was then captured. There is a question whether he is lawfully in American custody..."

An interesting legal argument. The point Kuby makes here sounds more like something that would apply during times of war with enemy combatants/negotiators, rather than law breaking thug's and kidnappers with NO declared war in effect.

Anyone have any insight as to what Maritime law(s), or "principles of truce" that apply to this case?

[bomelia]

Flag of truce? While holding a captive at gunpoint? There is a disparity here that I cannot quantify.

But this is America, and you may be correct... he may get to walk. He should have no shortage of ACLU lawyers lining up to help him.

Mike

[392cobra]

With BHO,Al Sharpton and the ACLU having his back,he has hit the jack pot getting captured.

[Excaliber]

I think there is little if any chance the argument will prevent the prosecution from moving forward in THIS case. But, like I said, it's an interesting legal question. I am reminded of the movie "300" where the Spartans simply dispatched the negotiators without further adue. How rude was that!

How does America typically deal with negotiators during time of war? In THIS case an argument could be made that the pirate came aboard seeking medical aid for his injured hand or simply wanted to give himself up. It is not clear cut that he was under a flag of truce, or so I gather from the news reports.

[llsh]

I understood that the pirate injured his hand in a scuffle onboard the Bainbridge. That would indicate that he wasn't there to negotiate, but to become "un-apprehended". A question I am curious to have answered is: If they bring him to trial and he is convicted and serves time, once released, will he be released in America and be free to stay here under present laws or will they have to take him back to Africa, since that is where he was picked up. Or maybe dropped back into a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean?

[Cobrabill]

As soon as his compadres put the hostage in a situation where the seals had to act immediately,there was no truce.This matter is too simple.

[Excaliber]

I understood his hand was injured by the sailors on the freighter when he was first captured by them? The injury, how ever he recieved it, is a good example of how difficult it is to get the facts from news reports!

It seems logical he would be deported back to Africa after serving his sentence.

The official position of the US is that they don't negotiate in cases like this (kidnapping, hostage taking, etc.). But the fact is there is often a "wink and nod" involved and money or goods do change hands to secure the release of captives in some cases. For instance in this case and in most of these cases it is left up the owners of the ship to negotiate for release and the US, as well as other countries, generally do not interfere. Family members may negotiate a release in some cases without the official involvement of Government.

[trularin]

Although one would not believe it at times, there is a substantial time difference between the time of Spartans and now.

[Excaliber]

And yet even today the military still studies the 'ancients' for their techniques of war and in some cases find brilliant strategies. Like dumping the negotiators in a very deep pit...

The "official" Government line here is that the Captains life was in imminent danger. Gun being held to his back and all that. But it could have been little more than they had a shot, took it, and justified the action by deeming it an "imminent danger" situation. Regardless of the facts either way, they did what needed to be done. Could they have done it sooner than four days into the saga? We'll never know for sure.

[SP01715]

Like I said in another thread, it was only a matter of time until the liberals came out to defend the pirates.

[Excaliber]

SP01715, even mass murders are allowed legal counsel in order to assure all the rules of law are followed before the hangin'.

The question remains:
WHAT "principles of truce in warfare" is Kuby refering to? How would that apply to this case? I can't find much using Google, other than, references to Kuby himself saying it.

[LURK]

I'm a liberal, but Kuby is a hack whacko that makes me look like Atilla the Hun.

I'd wait and see what really sticks to the wall after he's done in court.

[Ronbo]

Easy enough, haul the lifeboat out to the middle the ocean and put him back on it. (gee, we didn't notice the small leak, sorry)

Wonder how many millions this a-hole's trial is going to end up costing us.

[Michael C Henry]

Question ? Why do we need to capture pirates and then waist time trying them. I understand the lawyers don't get involved and thusly don't make any money . Just let them (bit and pieses) sink to the bottomand feed the crabs. Just don't tell me about it. I want to see that somoli pirates have just diissappeared on National Geographic channel.

[427 S/O]

We'll have first hand accounts of what transpired those 4 days, given the number of people on site it's inevitable.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

SP01715, even mass murders are allowed legal counsel in order to assure all the rules of law are followed before the hangin'.

The question remains:
WHAT "principles of truce in warfare" is Kuby refering to? How would that apply to this case? I can't find much using Google, other than, references to Kuby himself saying it.

I used to work in law enforcement, I understand the right to counsel. I am reffering to the ACLU and other liberal types that always take the other side and defend people that are enemies of the USA with ridiculous arguments. I am talking about the liberals that are saying we should not have shot the other three pirates. Just like after 9/11, I knew the day we were being attacked it was only a matter of time before the liberals found a way to blame us. It's always the same with the America haters.

[Bill Bess]

YO-HO YO-HO A PIRATES LIFE FOR ME!

He'll get two years worth of free passes to Disneyland, a kid meal at McDonolds..named after him...like "Pirates let's make a Deal" lunch, and of course a book deal. After that he will be on Opra, the View, and all the NBC stations..last but not least a job at FEDX cause he's good at doin things fast.

Ain't America a great place for the inspired.

Bill

[cobra de capell]

Today in Piracy: Families of failed pirates demand pardon and compensation


GALKAYO, Somalia -- The mother of a teenager facing trial in the United States for piracy off Somalia wants President Barack Obama to pardon her son because he was misled into joining a sea gang. Abdiqani Hassan reporting for Reuters writes that Abduwali Abdukhadir Muse (who is going to be tried as an adult) was captured by U.S. forces when they rescued an American sea captain being held hostage by pirates. Three of Muse’s comrades were killed in the operation.

“My son was influenced by other gangs. He only got into piracy 15 days before he was captured. He is very young and didn’t know what he was doing is a crime,” said Adar Abdirahman Hassan.

“I am appealing the United States and President Obama to release my son,” the mother said, adding that Muse is only 16.

A widow of one of the slain men said she had no idea her husband was involved in any crime.

“He told me he was going fishing. He did not show signs of being a pirate. I was very shocked to hear that my husband was surrounded by Americans,” said Hamdi Jamac, a mother of three.

“I want his remains because my children cannot believe their father was killed at sea. I want compensation for this killing as my children are desperate and have no one that can help.”

Jamac’s mother-in-law also wants the body of her 29-year-old son and compensation for his death.

“Killing our sons was not the right decision. The U.S. has to pay the price for what they have done to us. There was another peaceful way of solving the crisis, that would save both the captive and our children,” Mulaho Mohamud said.

Snip......http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...pensation.aspx

My son was influenced by other gangs. He only got into piracy 15 days before he was captured. He is very young and didn’t know what he was doing is a crime,”

When you have a person who can tell a lie, this bold - and not be called on it - how do you negotiate with them? Her son was really so stupid, possessed such a low IQ that he didn't know that pointing a machine gun at a person and holding him hostage for 4 days was 'wrong'.

Some people need killing.

[Excaliber]

I haven't seen any news reports about anyone condeming the shooting of the three pirates, and I'm not looking for any. Fringe groups carry little weight as there will always be someone somewhere who will oppose or support whatever the current happenstance is.

The defense is grasping at straws here. The "truce" argument is all but dead and the "age" argument has been shot down by the Judge. I think the end result will be a Federal mandatory life sentence for the pirate.

Does a Federal "life sentence" come with the possibility of parole or is it really life?

My son was influenced by other gangs. He only got into piracy 15 days before he was captured. He is very young and didn’t know what he was doing is a crime,”

He had in fact become the person his mother had warned him about!

[joe g]

We should let the parents know where they can pick up the bodies-thats it, and they pay the freight.
joeg