An epiphany concerning the public option

[bomelia]

Nothing original here. I heard it on the radio. I think it was a caller to the Hannity show. The fellow pointed out how hypocritical it was for the liberals to attempt to foist upon us a "public option" for health care when THEY are resistant to a "private option" for education (choice). This has resonated with me ever since I heard it. Its A-OK to use government to compete with the private sector, but gosh be damned if we will ever allow the private sector to compete with government to force them to do a better job. Basturds. And I will be echoing this sentiment in letters to my senators and congressmen. I hope you will too.

Mike

[Bartruff1]

I am for public schools and public health care...I don't see the contradiction .....you always have a choice...I never attended a public school and have excellent private health insurance...

[bomelia]

Really? If you choose to send your kids to private school, you still pay taxes for public school. This is not inconsequential. The real problem is with lower wage TAX PAYERS. For them, there is no choice. As for those who pay no taxes at all? Screw them. They are the source of ALL of this.

Mike

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by bomelia

Really? If you choose to send your kids to private school, you still pay taxes for public school. This is not inconsequential. The real problem is with lower wage TAX PAYERS. For them, there is no choice. As for those who pay no taxes at all? Screw them. They are the source of ALL of this.

Mike

I don't mind paying for public schools, I see it as a investment in the country ...what I don't want to pay taxes for are home schooling and private schools (most especially religious private schools). If parents want to send their kids to private schools let them pay for it.. ps...I don't know about inner city schools, but in small town or rural America the public schools that I am familiar with are much better than the private schools I went to....much better...as a aside and off topic, it was the MF's on Wall Street that screwed the whole world and I suspect every freaking one of them went to private schools...

[cobra bill]

There are certain things we all pay for the good of our nation, defense is one, but we all pay for fire fighters, and police, do you think it's a good idea we have private fire departments or police, so if by chance you can't afford them, your house burns down. We need healthcare, the same as we need the fire department, law enforcement, schools, clean water, functioning sewers, roads maintained, all these things and more we need and cannot be done by the private sector and be fair to everyone, it's in the common good, it's we the people to form a more perfect union.

[Ron61]

Bill,

Did you per chance see the two hour show on the History channel about the Crumbling of America? It covers everything in the infrastructure of the country and based on what I see around here is pretty accurate. Roads being closed due to no maintenance, dangerous dams, bad water lines and tunnels, and it goes on and on. Most of the infrastructure is over 50 years old and has not been maintained. We are having a 60% raise in our sewer rates this month as our lines are old and falling apart. I don't mind it if they use it to repair the system and don't do the usual and give the city council their big pay raises. Our water system needs to be repaired and now the toxic sludge from the Iron Mountain Dam is starting to get so close to the lake where the drinking water comes from they are having to rush to try and get a pumping station in to dredge it out of the water. The Federal Govt. has spend millions on that place and still can't figure a way to stop it. It is considered one of the most toxic places in the country if not the world. A lot of money was raised several years ago to try and do something about that, but it vanished somehow and no one knows where.

Here is a link to some of the information about the mine. It is an older one but do a search and you will find pages about it including some about the superfund clean up that is now underway.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MN9Q185QAK.DTL

Ron

[bomelia]

The reason our infrastructure is crumbling is SO much of our Federal budget is directed to SOCIAL programs. This includes the NEA. Yes, we need schools. We need schools that teach our kids to be independent of the government. The government does not want this. This is why the govenment is agains a "private" option. And if you think the government only wants a public "option" for health care, you must be from another planet. The government wants the public dependent on it for health care too. Soon, the next rallying call for dems will be "the republicans wanna take away YOUR health care". You know, some of you "liberal" folks amaze me. I honestly do not believe YOU think the government is doing all of this for nefarious reasons (they are of course, its all about the votes). But if you would simply stop and think about it, be honest about it, you would get it. But you, like I were most likely raised in a public (governement) school. So your thinking gets clouded. Me? I read a lot of books to fix my problem. I see a bit more clearly now.

So, complain all you want about infrastructure. It ain't gonna get fixed anytime soon because Uncle Sam is too busy paying for votes via SS, public schools, Medicare, Medicaide, failing public schools, drugs, and soon, health care for all. Take a good look at recent budgets and compare the mandated spending vs the discrecionary spending. Infrastructure is under discresionary funding. The goverment BY LAW must pay off all the needy (greedy) people first before it can spend one dam dime on your dams, bridges , and roads.

Mike

[cobra bill]

Well as a civil servant I can tell you political parties, do not matter, I have been through republican administrations and democrat, and we do not change, the leadership of the party changes but not the civil service workers, I have found over the years that some are better than others at governing, I used to be a republican, I didn't always vote that way it was more about the person, I have though been soured by the republican party and how they run government, as a worker I have seen it all those that can do the job and do it right and those that only want to make us fail to prove a point that government does not work, well its only as good as our leaders make it.
If you take away our ability to do our jobs, it will fail, and then they will be correct, that government does not work, or you can give us the tools and support we need and we will make it work and make it better than any other government, we are all dedicated workers, but we have no control over those that would wish to prove that government is bad! That's why I vote Democrat now.

[Bartruff1]

the kids in the Public Schools. I am of the opinion that it is the parents that have the responsibility and the opportunity to see that their children are educated and prepared to live successful lives. Sure, there are bad schools and teachers but if the parents are interested and involved and have high expectations the kids will likely get a excellent education. I don't hear good parents blaming the schools for their childrens problems. Neither do I see the government as the enemy, as Cobra Bill pointed out, the govement at all levels has a appropriate and effective role to play that I for one would not trust to the private sector. Striking the right balance is the art of leadership. I think Ike and Bush 41 were the best of the modern presidents...just my opinion....

[cobra bill]

I would agree with Bartruff1 on his assessment of presidential leadership, Ike was well aware of the dangers of the military industrial complex, something we are up to our eyebrows in at this time, as for bush1 he knew what it takes to form a coalition and how to fight a war, I was somewhat distrustful of him, he was after all in charge of the CIA, but he turned out to be a fine president and by the way a very nice person, I got to meet every president from Carter to Clinton.
I also would not want to some parts of the government in the hands of the private sector, the folly of this idea was shown when voting machines and our vote were allowed to be controlled by the private sector, it should be in the hands of the none bios career civil servants, with no political leaning

[VRM]

I would prefer that government workers had incentive to do their jobs well. I do not like unions because the slacker gets the same raise as the guy doing all the work. And soon the guy doing all the work starts slacking as well. I would also like to see penalties for not doing their work.

Government health care will end up the same way - bloated and inefficient. I would prefer to offer incentives to private companies to be more efficient, and to have more people enrolled. I would also be more strict about things like 'Restless Leg Syndrome' (and I am a sufferer...) - come on, we should not be wasting money on something like that so that drug companies can make more money.

I would also love to gradually eliminate welfare - if you want to survive you will need to get a job. I would strengthen unemployment benefits, but it would also be tied to the unemployment rate and the benefits would go away after a certain period of time.

Mike is absolutely right about our infrastructure and social programs. We spend too much on a lot of things that we just do not need and should not be paying for. However, I do think that public education should be community/state run, and I do think that everyone needs to contribute their fair share to the betterment of the community, especially as every citizen has the right to vote on their state/local specific education issues. Private school will be extra - suck it up if you want it.

Steve

[bomelia]

If we were not paying for all those dam social programs, we'd have plenty of money for schools & infrastructure. Defense too. All the things that are constitutional. But no, we are too dam busy making sure all the aging boomers get free health care, free drugs, and plenty of $$ to spend.

And for this, we get to implode our society.

Mike

[VRM]

Mike,
Social programs are not the only thing that we are spending obscene levels of money on - Iraq is expensive, and so is giving money to big businesses. We gave a few billion to the oil companies for them to learn how to drill deeper under water. They make enough money - they should pay or it themselves. And I am against a windfall profit tax on their profits.

Steve

[bomelia]

Wars are expensive. Sometimes they return their invesment, sometimes not. WWII, yes. Korea, yes. Vietnam? Prolly not. Iraq? Afgahnistan? Too soon to know.

Redistribution of wealth does not have a ROI. Yes, the boat comes up for all, but for all the wrong reasons. You still end up with a bunch of people who have NO incentive to improve their lot in life. Over time, they beging to expect everything to be given to them.

Time was, a government hand out was a shaming thing. No longer true.

Mike

[joe g]

As for Heathcare LOOK AT ANY Governement program and see how ineffieceint it is- DO YOU WANT your healthcare by the governemnt. There wont be any private healthcare, maybe only for the rich. Private ins wont be able to complete with the gov. Gov can run in the red forever, private cant. Walk into your local USPS and see the turtle crawl of speed they do. Gov healthcre will be the same.
joeg

[Roscoe]

We have plenty of money for schools. Here it cost over 14k per student and they still cannot read, write or do arithmetic properly. Plus they do get indoctrinated on liberal viewpoints, global warming and gay rights. You want to see government run health care in the US? How about veterans hospitals? Been there, done that. Or picture your local DMV workers with surgical masks. YIKES!

And for once VRM and I agree.....

Roscoe