Video: The (Vaguely Disturbing) Death of a Clunker

[cobra de capell]

Video: The (Vaguely Disturbing) Death of a Clunker

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2...h-of-a-Clunker

The Cash for Clunkers program is stupid for a lot of reasons. Not only is it just another tax-payer bailout of the unions automakers, who can sell more cars at artificially depressed prices so they can keep the doors open. It also screws with the free-market (big surprise there) by pulling forward demand that isn't there now, only to kill demand over the next 1-2 years. Killing off the clunkers also hurts the used car market, the spare parts market, and the auto repair business. If there aren't any old cars to buy or fix, those guys are all out of a job.

Snip......
_____


“Unintended” consequence? No cheap cars for poor people, high schoolers, or college students. One of the most vulgar displays of shameless wastefulness I have ever seen.

[cobra de capell]

By results do you mean that the $1 BILLION allocation has been spent? We will get that back when? Keep in mind that even the auto manufacturers/dealers aren't paying taxes at this time - no net profit.

Of course, now Congress has approved $2 BILLION MORE. Why not $1 TRILLION for the program? Just print it up!

[computerworks]

sorry...when editing, my orig post just vanished. (?)

For context, I posted...."...it seems to be the only stimulus deal thats working and showing results"

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

By results do you mean that the $1 BILLION allocation has been spent? We will get that back when? Keep in mind that even the auto manufacturers/dealers aren't paying taxes at this time - no net profit.

Of course, now Congress has approved $2 BILLION MORE. Why not $1 TRILLION for the program? Just print it up!

Congress seemed to bilaterally approve the reload. The stimulus is a "given" now, no backsies... and this one is immediately...uh...stimulating business.

What's not to like?...the money is going to go out somewhere, why not to give manufacturing a little shot.

[rustyBob]

That must make Volvo feel happy that a fairly new car was destroyed for no good reason.I guess they will just have to make more of them for some other moron to destroy.

[cobra de capell]

the money is going to go out somewhere

Unfortunately it is going out to something, so I agree. On the other hand, giving out funds that we need to borrow seems more than passingly strange - each one of us should have been able to make the decision as to what to buy or not buy - if a tax cut was implemented versus a hand out for new cars.

It will be interesting to see what percentage is going to buying new American built cars and trucks. Also, it's not working part of this program that is a problem, it's the impact on those in the used car and parts markets - not good.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

It will be interesting to see what percentage is going to buying new American built cars and trucks.

A good friend in the auto retail business says that Toyota and Honda are reaping the biggest benefits.

Knee-jerk reaction is "well, that sucks"...until you realize they both are selling cars built by American workers.

I think if you're going to piss away stimbucks, there are far worse programs on the table. This is at least creating commerce.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by computerworks

A good friend in the auto retail business says that Toyota and Honda are reaping the biggest benefits.

Knee-jerk reaction is "well, that sucks"...until you realize they both are selling cars built by American workers.

I think if you're going to piss away stimbucks, there are far worse programs on the table. This is at least creating commerce.

Yes there is far more waste and fraud in other "Stimulus" deals. But the Cash 4 clunkers is just trading pockets or worse. For every dollar it puts into manufacturing [i.e. UAW UNION{voting block} JOBS], it takes some larger number of dollars out of the automotive aftermarket. And the automotive aftermarket includes COBRA builders, repairers, and suppliers. It hurts the poor by reducing the number of used cars available and ARTIFICIALLY jacks up the price. Costing both the used car seller and buyer more money. Meaning the bottom end gets forced out of the market place.
ALL this for the continued buggering incest between Gov. and the UAW and done with borrowed money that we and our kids and grandkids don't and won't have.
What you say, "There are worse Government programs." is crushingly true. But there is no part of C4C that is good.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Video: The (Vaguely Disturbing) Death of a Clunker

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2304-DC-Republican-Examiner~y2009m8d1-Video-The-Vaguely-Disturbing-Death-of-a-Clunker

The Cash for Clunkers program is stupid for a lot of reasons. Not only is it just another tax-payer bailout of the unions automakers, who can sell more cars at artificially depressed prices so they can keep the doors open. It also screws with the free-market (big surprise there) by pulling forward demand that isn't there now, only to kill demand over the next 1-2 years. Killing off the clunkers also hurts the used car market, the spare parts market, and the auto repair business. If there aren't any old cars to buy or fix, those guys are all out of a job.

Snip......
_____


“Unintended” consequence? No cheap cars for poor people, high schoolers, or college students. One of the most vulgar displays of shameless wastefulness I have ever seen.

That video and the others linked to it were more than vaguely disturbing. There is a Darwin award waiting out there. Plus how long does the new, better mileage car have to run until it equals the pollutions produced in that idiotic engine 'disabling?" And that Volvo would likely be a sellable used car that would take a mosquito fogging real clunker off the road.

Actual reliable used cars with tolerable gas mileage taken to the crusher while rolling wrecks leaking as much fuel and oil as they burn will, by necessity of the poor, REMAIN on the road with bad brakes, lights, disabled safety and pollution gear. Worn shocks and suspension parts. Citroen C2's will look like "safe" cars.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Dan40

That video and the others linked to it were more than vaguely disturbing. There is a Darwin award waiting out there. Plus how long does the new, better mileage car have to run until it equals the pollutions produced in that idiotic engine 'disabling?" And that Volvo would likely be a sellable used car that would take a mosquito fogging real clunker off the road.

Actual reliable used cars with tolerable gas mileage taken to the crusher while rolling wrecks leaking as much fuel and oil as they burn will, by necessity of the poor, REMAIN on the road with bad brakes, lights, disabled safety and pollution gear. Worn shocks and suspension parts. Citroen C2's will look like "safe" cars.

We will be left with the worst and the newest cars on the road. Not the best plan. If you were to change the program that if you trade in a car for a car that gets XX miles more/gallon, and all cars that are traded in that are in good condition are kept on the lots, and only scrap the worst (Just crush them, don't do this idiotic blowing them up first). The poorer people can trade in a car for a used volvo that they can now afford with the stimulus and we get the worst cars off the road.

But hey, I am not a gov. expert so what do I know?

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

We will be left with the worst and the newest cars on the road. Not the best plan. If you were to change the program that if you trade in a car for a car that gets XX miles more/gallon, and all cars that are traded in that are in good condition are kept on the lots, and only scrap the worst (Just crush them, don't do this idiotic blowing them up first). The poorer people can trade in a car for a used volvo that they can now afford with the stimulus and we get the worst cars off the road.

But hey, I am not a gov. expert so what do I know?

There are some that are experts about the Government [not me]. But there are no Government Experts.

[cobra de capell]

I have a 1996 Buick that just will not die. Any used car that runs well is worth $1,500 to $2,000 - fair condition. So, people are only getting a few thouand, but the car is being destroyed - my car would be great for a single mom - nice air conditioning, tires, etc. - it just seems like a waste to junk a lot of the cars that are being turned in.

I wonder: Perhaps around 3-6 months from now, are we going to find out that although the feds paid $3,500-$4,500 to get the trades off the road, the drive train turns up back on the road in some other car? Isn't it just the engine that needs to be crushed under this program or the entire car? Since junk dealers will be getting 'running cars' for free - I wonder how that's going to turn out between the trade and the crushing phases. Perhaps someone is going to make a lot of money.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

I have a 1996 Buick that just will not die. Any used car that runs well is worth $1,500 to $2,000 - fair condition. So, people are only getting a few thouand, but the car is being destroyed - my car would be great for a single mom - nice air conditioning, tires, etc. - it just seems like a waste to junk a lot of the cars that are being turned in.

I wonder: Perhaps around 3-6 months from now, are we going to find out that although the feds paid $3,500-$4,500 to get the trades off the road, the drive train turns up back on the road in some other car? Isn't it just the engine that needs to be crushed under this program or the entire car? Since junk dealers will be getting 'running cars' for free - I wonder how that's going to turn out between the trade and the crushing phases. Perhaps someone is going to make a lot of money.

Ya think?!! U Betcha!

The C4C is just another infusion of cash into GM and Chrysler, but this time Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW and the rest are gobbling up 4 of every 5 dollars.

[HI Cobra]

I can see it now - after the success of C4C, with the new health care plan in
place, they will have senior citizens on a tread mill until they drop so they can
eliminate medical expenses. Our government is looking out for us. One step
at a time. Soylent Green!

[cobra de capell]

The entire program seems like a windfall for the auto companies - another stimulus package/bailout for the unions. Why not an across the board tax cut for everyone - a non-discriminatory stimulus?

[computerworks]

Tax breaks don't impact until the next tax cycle; tax cuts predictably will be banked, not spent in this climate.

Rebates at the point of purchase stimulate commerce.
Better than doing nothing.

[Doug I]

So these cars that people bring in to get their up to $4500 are all actually being destroyed ? Or do they go into the national pool of second hand cars available ?

That'd mean that a student etc who has, say, $2000 for a car might actually get a 'better' car now for the same money as they would have a few months ago. I'm hoping that there'll be a 'trickle down' effect on improving the national fleet rather than a polarization of the extremes on it.

[Power Surge]

Well, that turbo Volvo is worth WAY more than $4500, so there's got to be more to that story as to why it was traded in on that program. That car is not typical of what gets traded in for a new car.

So.. the govt "buys" the car, right? If the C4C buy ins are then destroyed, where do they go after that? Junkyards? Recyclers? Obviously the govt must make some money back at that point from whomever they are selling the cars to, which does make sense.

I just don't see the point of blowing the motors. Why not just brand them all with salvage titles? This way, if someone wants to buy the whole car from a junkyard or recycler, they still have to go through the salvage title process which in turn generates more business revenue?

[cobra de capell]

True, but rebates are only available to those that can afford a new car at this time. Those people are already doing well and are confident that they will have a job to pay for it. It really doesn't stimulate the economy in the long-run - it's only a short-term stimulus just like the entire stimulus package. Yes, tax cuts would not kick in for awhile, but give them to business entities and they will use them for R&D and perhaps hire more workers. Targeting tax cuts have worked well in the past.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Doug I

So these cars that people bring in to get their up to $4500 are all actually being destroyed ? Or do they go into the national pool of second hand cars available ?

That'd mean that a student etc who has, say, $2000 for a car might actually get a 'better' car now for the same money as they would have a few months ago. I'm hoping that there'll be a 'trickle down' effect on improving the national fleet rather than a polarization of the extremes on it.

They are actually being destroyed - that's the only way the feds will pay the money.......they want them off the road, period.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Well, that turbo Volvo is worth WAY more than $4500, so there's got to be more to that story as to why it was traded in on that program. That car is not typical of what gets traded in for a new car.

So.. the govt "buys" the car, right? If the C4C buy ins are then destroyed, where do they go after that? Junkyards? Recyclers? Obviously the govt must make some money back at that point from whomever they are selling the cars to, which does make sense.

I just don't see the point of blowing the motors. Why not just brand them all with salvage titles? This way, if someone wants to buy the whole car from a junkyard or recycler, they still have to go through the salvage title process which in turn generates more business revenue?

The motors have to be blown so that those "Gas Guzzler" engines, can never pollute the environment again. Drain Bramaged Government logic.

They are allowed to take "some" non-power train parts off to resell. But the power train must be destroyed. Not sure just how the tranny and rear end ruin the environment.