GM's green power trip

[cobra de capell]

GM's green power trip

Even in these dog days of summer, we still remember the poor folks who paid $700 a month for their electric heat last winter. Only homeowners who signed heating-oil contracts at $4.75 a gallon can begin to feel their pain.

Now it's not breaking news that electric heat is expensive. Fossil-fuel-fired power plants consume more than twice as much energy as they produce, then 6.4 percent of the electricity they generate — by some estimates, it's 9.5 percent — is lost in transmission and distribution. All those costs must be accounted for, but until that very distant day when wind, solar and biomass are competitive with oil, coal and natural gas (nuclear already beats fossil fuels hands down), then civilization will have to live with the expense and inefficiencies of electricity production.

With that in mind, Government Motors says its $40,000 Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid with its electric motor and backup flex-fuel engine will have a combined 100-plus mpg rating (230 mpg city) and a range of 300 miles. Few in the automotive field are buying that pitch. Edmunds, for one, says GM's calculations assume 1) optimum driving conditions on good roads; 2) no passengers; 3) short driving distances; 4) no power-draining accessories (air conditioning, radio, etc.); and 5) a fully drained lithium-ion battery when the car enters the garage. Yeah, your mileage may vary. A lot.

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The Volt battery, meanwhile, will cost as much as $10,000, and under the best-case scenario will last five years, automotive experts say.

I wonder if GM would have gone this route without being practically owned by our Government. If it's true - $40K price tag with a $10,000 battery that will last only 5 years - it's doubtful that anyone will buy one.

What a bunch of BS and a waste of tax dollars.

[bdeutsch]

Something else that nobody in the government seems to be talking about is what the impact on the grid is going to be if 100,000 Volt buyers all come home between 5:30 to 6:30 every night and start trying to recharge their batteries.

Bottom line is that in many areas of the country, the existing electric grids are already maxed out (as evidenced by some of the brown outs of past years). Wonder what a massive number of electric cars all drawing 220V will do?

$10B allocated to building a Smart Grid beginning next year but that is not anywhere close to what it will ultimately cost to rectify even the current challenges, let alone adding load imposed by increasing numbers of electric vehicles.

[tcrist]

Everybody that buys the Volt and cars like them will need to put up their own solar charging station at their houses.

[Wayne Maybury]

Ontario is offering $10,000 to anyone buying a Volt. Actually they didn't say a "Volt" but they set it up in such a way that the Volt is just about the only car that fits the program. Even the President of Toyota, who expects to have a similar plug-in hybrid vehicle available soon, said that the market should determine which cars the public wants to buy. He feels that this type of program will result in sales of vehicles that the buyers really don't want.

Can you imagine driving this thing in the winter? At least it would start OK but running the heater/defroster sure would cut into the gas mileage.

Wayne

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Everybody that buys the Volt and cars like them will need to but up their own solar charging station at their houses.

And work nights so their cars can charge during the day!

[Ron61]

And don't forget those long Winter weeks when the snow is deep and the sun never shines. I have recently talked to another Solar Company here and we have far less severe Winters than back East and the owner of the company told me that at best in this area Solar Power is just an added bonus for the hot Summer months and that few people would ever live long enough right now for it to even pay for itself in this area. I had been thinking about trying to have a system put in just to power the lighter loads of the house and use the regular power for the air conditioning and other heavy draws.

Ron

[fsstnotch]

The problem I have with the VOLT... or any hybrid for that matter, is that I don't do an enormous amount of city driving. Nearly everywhere I drive is 55+mph. All these hybrids boast great fuel economy, but it's only practical in a city environment.

I'll continue to hype my TDi until something proves it wrong. Guiness Book 2009 can't be that bad!

[Excaliber]

Ron, even in Hawaii it's a long shot for solar to pay for itself. I've run the numbers several different times with different scenario's based on our VERY high electricity costs. Even with that, no reasonable payback time.

UNLESS, your commercial and go BIG, then the numbers work!

[joyridin']

What difference does it make? At some point in time, technology has to move forward...and this is a move forward. A few psychotic hollywood stars will buy them, and eventually the price will start to drop. Then a couple of other car manufactures will duplicate the process and things will get cheaper and better. I just bought a DVD player for $19 (new). When they first came out, they were $700. You have to start somewhere.

Besides...I need these cars so there will be enough gas left in the future to drive my Cobra!

[Ron61]

Ernie,

It sounds as if your solar there in Hawaii is a lot like here. Some of the big businesses have it and it seems to help them, but for the average home owner it just isn't practical yet. Our electric rates are some of the highest around, but the two solar companies I have talked to both told me the same thing. Plus I would have to pay a big permit charge, and hire an electrician to install everything, and at this time I don't think this city even is set up to install digital meters. So I will just stay with the conventional set up for my lifetime.

Ron