S/C Fuel Filler fasteners

[Sal Gerace]

Does anyone know for certain how the filler caps were bolted down on original cars. I have seen hex style bolts on a few examples and also the recessed pan head slotted or phillips type bolts. What is correct or more correct?

[richsd]

This is a great question. First of all, the only thing that is for certain is that original cars used various methods to bolt down the filler cap and you have named them. Correct Cobra hardware up front (for example on the dash) must certainly be pan head slotted screws. This work was all done in England and a phillips head screw would not be used in England at the time. However, the filler caps were put on by Shelby so other types of screws were used. You will see some pictures of 3042 floating around with hex bolts however another common application for the filler cap was phillips head screws.

[Sal Gerace]

I have just viewed pictures of CSX3003 and that is why I decided to ask. This car also has the hex screws? I would love to know if the mounting plate on the filler of these cars has the recess in them for the bolts or not! I believe Dick Smith's car had the hex bolts too but I need to go back and check, Sal.

[Power Surge]

This is the problem with looking at original cars... most of them have been restored at some point.

I have pics of original cars that are supposed to be good examples of unmolested cars, but even if the car has been repainted, that could have warrented a bolt change. 3047 is a good example of a car that's pretty accurate still, but it WAS repainted and some things were changed from original on it. It does have hex head bolts for the filler though, AND the repaint was done OVER them. That could say that the hex were as that car came.

Dick Smith's car is not a good car to use for reference, as there's not much on it as it came from Shelby due to it's decades of racing use. The pics I have of that car, show allen head bolts.

3003 has hex bolts, but we know it's been molested. Even the clocking of the cap itself looks altered on that car.

3034 is a fairly unmolested car, and it's got hex head.

I would be interested to see what 3050 has, as in the pics recently posted it's hard to tell, but it also looks like hex head bolts (that were painted body color).

None of the other cars that I have pics of really tell anything, as they all have very altered pasts. But for what it's worth, they also all have hex heads. I don't actually have ANY pics of a car with anything other than hex heads.

I am sure Ron has much more insight on this.

[computerworks]

Sal..correct on 3050... hex heads, painted from that 'refresh coat'.

The same cap was used on a lot of other racecar applications... over the years, Cobras may have had them replaced with cap assemblies with slightly different configurations... but the vintage pics all point to plain ol' bolts and nuts.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by richsd

However, the filler caps were put on by Shelby so other types of screws were used.

No.
Pictures of the Comp cars on the assembly line at AC show the filler caps installed.

I would say Hex heads are the way to go.

[richsd]

Originally Posted by computerworks

No.
Pictures of the Comp cars on the assembly line at AC show the filler caps installed.

I would say Hex heads are the way to go.

Comp cars on the assembly line did have filler caps attached however these were unpainted cars. Various things happened during the process to complete these cars. As you mention some of the cars have paint on top of the bolts and in those cases it would be the case that the filler cap was not removed for paint. In most cases the filler cap was removed for paint and for some reason the bolts were often not used when putting the filler cap back on. In many of these cases phillips head screws were used instead. Again, the bottom line is that there is no one certain way that these cars were done originally and this is one example of that. As Sal mentions, during repainting a bolt change was done at times. But it is clear that the cars were not painted when arriving from AC and many of the cars had the bolt change right out of the starting gate. I have debated which way I would go with this item on my car and honestly have gone back and forth on the subject.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by richsd

As you mention some of the cars have paint on top of the bolts

No... in both cases, Sal and I talked only of two specific cars that are known to have been repainted years later.

Just curious... what did you put on your car, Rich?

[richsd]

Originally Posted by computerworks

No... in both cases, Sal and I talked of two specific cars that are known to have been repainted years later.

Just curious... what did you put on your car, Rich?

Yes I know those were also repainted later and are examples of cars that retained the bolts through the original paint job and through a repaint. What I am saying is that there are multiple paths depending on the car. Some retained the bolts through the first paint and subsequent, some retained the bolts through the first paint and lost them on a repaint, but many actually went to phillips head screws as the car was completed and painted for the first time.

I am actually going through some changes on my car in this exact area. I originally went with phillips head screws. I am just changing my filler cap from the chrome Enots to an NOS original Enots that has the duller finish instead of the more reflective chrome. As I am making this change I have been considering again the hex heads but have not yet sourced them. I guess I may end up with a car that took the opposite path with phillips heads originally and then a change to hex heads.

[Rick Parker]

I think a similar design although in a gold dicromate plated grade 8 is used on current Fuel Cell cans.

[Sal Gerace]

I have also spoke with Paul Andrews who owns 3034 and has owned many other original cars. He only remembers seeing hex heads on the cars that he has owned or still owns. I always keep in the back of my mind that if anyone wanted to replace/use a bolt it would be a hex since it is the more common bolt to have around.

[richsd]

So the question is now, is there a good source to get a proper designed hex head bolt if the choice is made to go in that direction. As I have considered this I have not been successful in finding original hex bolts or something close. Anyone know of something?

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by richsd

So the question is now, is there a good source to get a proper designed hex head bolt if the choice is made to go in that direction. As I have considered this I have not been successful in finding original hex bolts or something close. Anyone know of something?

I am quite confident I could find a proper bolt. The next question is does anyone HAVE a proper bolt to try to find a copy of .

[computerworks]

a bolt is a bolt....c'mon guys :-)



Sal... call Mike back...ask for some pictures.

[RedCSX1]

and I have yet to see one picture of a original set up with the shaved hex bolt!

[patty442]

Nice discussion. I love you guys. I wish I had seen this earlier and saved all the hostile statements back and forth and offened egos These are the facts. FACTS. The bolts used originally by the AC factory, where the comp style filler was absolutely installed, were BSF hex bolts, period. My brother was at A.C. in 1967 at the parts counter at A.C. following my orders to get three complete Comp fillers, necks and all attaching hardware, for the car that I eventually going to own. I have them today 2013. Shelby, when the cars were painted, changed the bolts to aircraft surplus American fine thread low height indented thinned head bolts. He did not machine anything thinner. They came that way and he selected them that way. The bolts he used have a spherical circular depression in the thinned head with a thin AN washer added to protect the underlying aluminum flang. No stainless steel, machined, phillips anything. Period. There is a call out number on the head that indentifies the manufacturer, type of O.D. fit and basic thread size. No length call out on the head data. I'll give you all a hint, the company was in walking distance of the Shelby factory. Imagine that. Hope this helps.

[mickmate]

Smoothed and chromed, looks like with the lack of radiused corners someone turned them down then puffed them.

[mickmate]

NAS thin head style. Military surplus was cheap, high quality readily available stuff.

[Rick Parker]

The bolts on the red car above are Premier Supertanium grade 10. At one time the benchmark chassis fastener in Nascar racing, but a bit of overkill for the application here.

[1985 CCX]

All the cars I have seen are hex in the early 3000 series.
Sal did a great rendition however the accuracy of 47 and 50 are hard to dispute.

3047: Jack bought the car with a fresh coat of solid blue. The car had FIA gold wheels and had nothing missing from the Carter Getty days. The stripes were added by jack and Paula one Saturday afternoon with shaker can white and masking tape. From what he had told me the car was very complete and untouched. Wanna see picture in blue pre-stripes?????

3050: Also another untouched with painted bolts..

Never felt the machined bolts were correct as that was extra $, anyone in MFG knows time = $$$. Didn't make the car faster.

My vote = bolts
Here is 47: