Finally! A drawing of a possible body for my chassis!

[john chesnut]

Well, I think that I finally have a drawing attached. I received alot of great input from alot of you concerning my Hot Rod pickup truck that I have been working on. I appreciate EVERY comment and suggestion. The conversation got me thinking about what kind of car makes a successful kit. I am all about all around performance for reasonable dollars. That is why I like the new generation of Corvettes.

The Cobra is the perfect car to replicate. It looks great, It has great history, It's a blast to drive and it's basically a simple car. There are not many cars that can claim all of those attributes. But, a kit for a Cobra using all Vette parts would have a niche but would not have main stream appeal.

I am not going to produce kits. But, I want my next project to be something that is more main stream than some of the cars that I build. I saw this drawing and I thought that it was very cool. I did not draw this but I love the concept. My favorite Corvette is the 1968 Stingray. I am thinking that a customized Stingray body on my chassis using new C6 Corvette suspension and drivetrain could be the perfect blending of the old, the new, and something more mainstream. The Stingray has a 98 inch wheelbase and is under 48 inches tall. It is just under 3 inches narrower than the C6 which means that even flaring the body wouldn't look out of place. I am thinking of a one piece tilt front end, my over the top headers for great leg room. This car is essentially the same size as the 9000 series Daytona Coupe. I know that it doesn't have the racing history of the Daytona or Cobra or a Shelby personality but I think that it would make for a great ride. A company could make a kit of this car and be around the same price as the FF Daytona. What do you think? Thanks, John

[mickmate]

That's got you written all over it John.

[Tommy]

I came of age about the time Corvette transitioned from the Sting Ray to the Mako style and I loved the shape of the 68 Corvette. My first high performance sports car was a 1972 Corvette with the LT1 high rev engine. So, needless to say, I like your car idea a lot. The end of the muscle car era made 1973-83 a decade of underpowered, overweight Corvettes with the same basic shape. That tarnished some of the lustre of the Mako style Corvettes. I don't know if a light weight car with significantly higher performance than the original cars of that era could draw a large following. BTW, is the design enough different from Corvette for a manufacturer to avoid interference from GM?

[xlr8tr]

very cool. Something to drive when its too ugly out for the cobra.

[john chesnut]

Tommy, thanks for the info that you sent to me today. I wonder what kind of car kit would sell in good numbers. I am not sure if a Stingray inspired body would do it. I do know that at around 2000lbs with the great C6 parts that it would be a stunning performer. Would a sensual original body design with the C6 parts sell better? I don't know and am searching. I have a frame done and want to start shaping a body over the winter.

Nick, I need to get up to your shop and check it out. After the first of the year I will be back in NH full time. My wife and kids have been back since school started. It cost me over 30K more in TAXES to live in NY last year. My house there just went up for sale.

[tkb289]

John,

Glad to see you were finally able to get the drawing posted to the thread.

Cool looking car

Came very close to buying a '69 years ago ... love that shape !

So, is your thought to build one car for yourself, with an eye towards a company taking the design and making kits ?

[john chesnut]

Thanks for the input Tim. I want to build a new car for myself. I have the frame jigs already and if the body comes out good I would make a mold for it. I would like to find a company that would like to produce the car and pay me a small royalty. For that reason I would like to come up with a design that would appeal to a good number of people. I am not going to be producing kits. I make a good part of my living by inventing simple things and licensing them to other companies. I just am bored and need a new project. John

[Tommy]

John,
I claim no expertise in the manufacturing or marketing of kit cars, but I have spent a little time thinking about your question of what kind of car based on the chassis you have built would sell in sufficient quantity to justify a business plan. I have no idea what your cost structure would be, so I made a WAG and came up with one car per month, or a dozen cars per year. I also assumed you would not want to do a Cobra because the market is already saturated.

Next, I searched the Internet for images of two seat, front engine sports and race cars of the 1950s-70s to see what shapes inspired me. As I looked at Ferraris, TVRs, Kellisons, Cheetahs and many more, it occurred to me that the appeal of the cars was driven more by my connection with them when I was younger than by the actual shape of the cars. That leads me to believe that potential kit car buyers are more likely to buy a car that reminds them of their past than an entirely new design that has no history. The fact that I see a lot more Factory Five Cobras than GTMs reinforces that belief.

The fact that kit car buyers are looking for replicas of cars with history partly explains why Cobra replicas have been so popular, but it doesn’t capture it all. I once watched a car load of women from age 15 to 70 get out of their car and walk all the way across a parking lot full of classic cars to have their photos taken next to my 427SC style Cobra. There is something about the shape of that particular body that appeals even to people who have no idea what it is. And the people who do know what it is usually believe that like Bruce Cambern’s Cobra, it is still the baddest car in town. I think Cobra replicas tapped in to the main line of public desire by offering the ultimate combination of history, beautiful lines and reputation for performance. The question is, what car other than a Cobra can generate enough similar appeal to support a business? And can that car be manufactured and sold without raising the ire of the company that originally sold it?

Let me interject a comment or two about manufacturing customized cars like the Corvette whose image you posted above. IMHO, one of the things that gives a customized car appeal is its uniqueness. When a manufacturer starts mass producing a customized car such as the Mustang Eleanor, it becomes less appealing to me. I might be interested in having that custom looking Corvette up until someone else showed up with one at the local cruise in. Having two of them sitting nearby would make both of them look more common and less appealing to me.

So, I come to the part where I try to answer your question. IMHO, a successful kit car would need to replicate a car with flowing lines and a reputation for performance, and whose original manufacturer is no longer in business. My first choice would be a Cheetah and my second choice would be a Kellison J5. The Kellison did not earn a reputation for performance, but it is the most sinister looking sports car ever. That’s my two cents worth.

[Wbulk]

John, I think you are on the right track with the look alike Corvette. It is my understanding that you would only get in trouble with GM if the dimensions were the same or close. It appears from history that even if they were exactly the same you would have to be selling a lot of them before GM would bother with you.

I also believe you should make it very similar to the drawing, more like a cartoon car. If you look at the Cobras, that's what they bring to my mind, a cartoon car, with exaggerated fenders, hood, and nose. Kids love them. With making it similar to the Corvette, but with the exaggerated features it's not a Corvette, but it sure reminds us of one, and evokes the same emotions we had when we were young. I think it's all about the memory connection and emotion. It's that "oh man" feeling when you first see it. With this you combine memories of a younger life with cool cartoon looks and I think it would be a success. The connection to the good memories is important as it evokes the emotion of a really cool time in history.

Wayne

[xlr8tr]

Heres a pic of a modified Kellison that I loved. It would work well with your frame John to create some headroom/legroom. If you are not doing a "replica", you need to come up with a unique design that stands on its own as something people would love to drive. The kellison, especially a slightly modified one, fits that bill nicely.

[john chesnut]

I like the Kellison. I think that it would would be fun to do it as a coupe and as a roadster. It does look sinister and doesn't look like anything else on the road. With my chassis and the Vette parts it would have world class performance. I will look into this.

[xlr8tr]

http://kellisonpage3.homestead.com/70000.html

heres a link to more pics, info on the Kellison

[john chesnut]

I have spent the past few hours researching the Kellisons. I really like the J4 model, especially the roadster version. And, I like the J5 coupe. What I like about the cars is that the designs are very good, they were designed around Chevy parts with other models that were simple rebodies of early vettes. They were raced, there is a great website and a core of enthusiasts for them. The J4 roadster (pic attached) body is still available out of the original molds. But, there isn't any one selling kits and no frames or other parts are availabe.
I think that I will order a J4 roadster body and build it out on one of my frames with new vette parts. The body weighs 152lbs. The total car will have 500hp and weigh under 1900lbs. After the roadster tackle the J5 Coupe. I am excited and think that this could be a great way to start. I could have the J4 done for Carlisle. What do you think?

[Tommy]

I expressed my fondness for the Kellison J5 earlier. What I didn't say then is that one of the reasons I like it so much is that it looks very much like the imaginary cars I sketched on my notebooks in high school. Yes, I would very much like to see a high performance Kellison replica in the flesh.

[tkb289]

John,

To be honest I have never heard of a Kellison until now, learn something new every day! One of these bodies on your frame with new Corvette parts sounds like a great project and something that is very achievable.

I looked on line as well at Kellisons, and like the J4 with the single round headlight a bit more than the dual round light setup on the J5 ... but both of them look better than the single rectangular headlights on the black car referenced above ... just my .02

http://bringatrailer.com/2007/11/21/...-j4-j5-coupes/