Help! Canton pan won't fit.

pbrown · #1 (**permalink**) 12-19-2001, 11:40 PM

Well, I finally received my new pan today. I eagerly flipped the motor over and set it over the stud girdle. It doesn't fit!

And this is a non-returnable part.

So what are my options for a pan and this stud girdle? The Canton is about 1/2" shy if fitting all the way around.

351W stroked to 393 and had a Blue Thunder stud girdle.
Pan is a Canton 15-680 front sump.

pbrown · #2 (**permalink**) 12-20-2001, 06:48 PM

I called Canton this morning. They told me that the pan will fit but requires that the crank scraper be removed from the pan. I think this can be done with an angle grinder easily. I won't be able to do it until I get back from xmas with the inlaws.

--Pat

Cobranut · #3 (**permalink**) 12-20-2001, 07:52 PM

Pat,

You probably already know this but, be sure to THOROUGHLY clean out the pan with hot soapy water (and a pressure washer if possible) after grinding or cutting on it.
The act of grinding the steel will magnetize the particles and make them difficult to remove. Be sure to get them all.

Later,

pbrown · #4 (**permalink**) 12-20-2001, 07:56 PM

I was going to take it to Jim Greenss shop and havethem clean it for me.

Thanks.

scr11 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-21-2001, 07:26 AM

Pat - I installed the same pan on my 393 last Monday with no problems, but I'm not using a girdle. I hope the mods work out.

What pan gaskets are you using? I was all set to use the 4 piece Fel Pro setup as Canton recommends, but after talking to a few guys on Corral.net, I went with the Ford one piece rubber/steel gasket. It fit great, and supposedly is the only gasket not to leak with Canton pans. We'll see.

Here's another question - Since I'm using a Canton screw in oil dipstick (screws into the right side of the pan) I need to find a solution for the stock dipstick location on the left side of my block (beneath the driver-side motor mount). When I was putting on the pan, I realized this whole needed to be blocked off some how. Maybe they make small freeze plugs (about the size of a small bolt) to block off the hole? What did you do about this?

Jack21 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-21-2001, 09:51 AM

The handiest tool in my toolbox during this endeavor was my die grinder. Broke my old Craftsman and replaced it with Dewalt, with a router speed reducer. Set of carbide dies for steel, and separate ones for aluminum, brass, and fiberglass.

My 9 qt Canton pan fit OK until I installed it with a Canton windage tray. The crank scraper in the pan hit the windage tray, which hit the rod nuts. Part of the scraper in pan needed removing, and windage tray needed a touch of clearancing.

Used ordinary FelPro gasket, but installed top half on block with silicone, bottom half with wheel bearing grease. Seals fine, and comes off for cleaning without destroying the gasket. Can be bolted back in. Works on valve covers too.

Drill and tap dipstick tube hole for short bolt or pipe plug. If you change your mind later, you can unscrew the plug and use the dipstick hole.

cobrajeff · #7 (**permalink**) 12-21-2001, 03:56 PM

I didn't have any stud girdle problems with my Canton "road race" pan, but I DID run into two other issues. First, the pan would not fit in the car as it was - the right front corner would have hit the "K" bracing in the front crossmember of my ERA. I had the right front corner truncated, welded up, and then replated the cad gold plating.

Then, I put it on the engine, and tried to insert the factory dipstick. Kerplink! Huhhh? it won't go all theway in! The dipstick was hitting the flange on the inside of the pan. Poked it in a few more times so I could get a good witness mark, then pulled the pan again and drilled a 7/16" clearance hole for the dipstick to pass through.

regards,

cobrajeff

cobrajeff · #8 (**permalink**) 12-22-2001, 12:09 PM

Canton didn't have one for an ERA FIA with a Cleveland...so I had to improvise......here's what the right front corner looked like after modification

C:\My Images\Cobra\P202\pan.JPG

regards,

cobrajeff

pbrown · #9 (**permalink**) 12-23-2001, 12:14 PM

scr11 -

Quote:

What pan gaskets are you using?

I don't have any yet except for the ones that came in my Ford engine gasket set.

Quote:

I went with the Ford one piece rubber/steel gasket. It fit great, and supposedly is the only gasket not to leak with Canton pans.

I'll look into this when I get back home.

Quote:

Here's another question - Since I'm using a Canton screw in oil dipstick (screws into the right side of the pan) I need to find a solution for the stock dipstick location on the left side of my block (beneath the driver-side motor mount). When I was putting on the pan, I realized this whole needed to be blocked off some how. Maybe they make small freeze plugs (about the size of a small bolt) to block off the hole? What did you do about this?

I don't have this hole in my block. The factory dip stick location is in the right side of the timing chain cover. My cover (Blue Thunder) came with a small expansion plug to press in there. I'm planning on using the stock dipstick location.

cobrajeff - I don't think I'll have to chop the pan. Your's looks great BTW.

pbrown · #10 (**permalink**) 12-31-2001, 05:16 PM

I cut out the crank scraper today and the pan went on fine. I cleaned the pan out pretty well but still plan on having the machine shop clean it.

hound dog · #11 (**permalink**) 12-31-2001, 07:03 PM

Actually, Canton isn't the only oil pan with fit problems. Went to install my Milodon 8 quart on my Windsor today and it hit the oil pump! Had to remove the oil pump and machine .065 inch off the side of it before I could move the pan over far enough to get the pan bolts in. Fortunately it still cleared the Ford Racing windage tray I had installed, even after I moved the tray down 1/8 inch to clear the stroker crank. Does anything work like it's supposed to?
h dog

Jack21 · #12 (**permalink**) 12-31-2001, 08:10 PM

Hey, Hound Dog, you must be working in the garage right next to mine. Building a Cobra is all the possible things that can go wrong building a warm street machine multiplied by 100. Nothing just bolts in and works like it's supposed to. Everything needs a tad more clearance, or a 1/8" longer or shorter bolt. The one piece you need to complete an assembly you realize you don't have 1/2 hour after the shop that sells it has closed.

A simple task like getting a power steering hose made. Never tell the shop owner what you're putting it on. If he (or she) gets anywhere near a book and asks the Killer Question, "What kind of a car is it for?", you're sunk. Right?

Power steering. I need a Chevy end on one side, a Ford end on the other, and the whole thing no longer than 14". Know how I got my PS hose? Fork lift truck hydraulics shop. And I had to bring them the Ford and Chevy ends!

Spark plugs! A simple set of spark plugs. Me: "I need 8 Autolite APP3924's." Counter guy: "What kind of vehicle is it for sir?" Me: "You don't want to know." Counter guy: "Sir, we have to know what kind of a vehicle it is so we can look it up in our computer." Me: "OK, it;s a '66 Ford Cobra, but it has a '74 351 engine, but it has TFS heads, and the head manufacturer says to use these plugs." Counter guy: "Sorry sir, we can't find your car in our computer." Yeah! Had to buy my plugs someplace else.

Fan belts! Radiator hoses! The list goes on.

No it doesn't get any better.

Well, I take that back. Sooner or later you get the car on the street. Then all the bullsh*t you went through building it is worth it. You park your beast in front of the Parts Department so the parts guys that gave you such a bad time can finally see what you were doing. Then all the parts guys want to see it, and all the shop guys want to see it, and all the sales guys want to see it, the secretary wants a ride in it, and the sales manager wants to cut you a deal to put your car on the showroom floor to improve traffic. It was worth it.

hound dog · #13 (**permalink**) 01-01-2002, 08:08 AM

Jack21,
I'm sort of just getting into it, but yesterday I had to hit 4 parts stores to find 3, 3/16 X 3/4 woodruff keys for the Scat crank. They were all trying to find woodruff keys in the lawnmower parts. Finally got some though, but never did find any locator pins for locating the heads to the block. Will have to make a trip to Greensboro to my engine machine shop for that I reckon. But when they asked what car they were for, I just said "Windsor Ford". I'm sure, more adventures to come. Believe the end justifies the means

h dog

Slide · #14 (**permalink**) 01-01-2002, 11:06 AM

No Hounddog, I used a Milodon 7qt cobra road race pan,windage tray, pump, and pickup on my 351w. The pickup line hit the pan baffles called Milodon and they were not even embarressed, just said "sometimes this happens" as if my block must be different! Thank goodness for air tools.