Minimising car weight

stephen low · #1 (**permalink**) 02-17-2002, 05:39 AM

I am in the planning stages of a cobra build and am considering how to keep the overall car weight down.

I would be appreciative of any suggestions as to how weight has been saved in other cobra builds.

One query I have relates to the GM Gen 3 all aluminium engines. I would prefer to put a Ford block in a Ford oriented car, probably 5 or 5.7 litres, so can anyone indicate if Ford has or is developing an all aluminium engine to compete against the General's product?

I look forward to your replys.

Slowy

Back in Black · #2 (**permalink**) 02-17-2002, 08:31 AM

I leave most of the engine advice to those that know more about the subject than I. However, one really easy way to reduce weight and improve handling and nimbleness (if that's a word)

Is to go with the lightest wheels and tires you can. Aluminum alloy wheels, low profile radials (if that look passes muster) and the best lightweight brakes (aluminum calipers?) you can get will help overall weight, and improve handling.

If you are planning on a custom rear end assembly, consider the models with aluminum housings, they are not quite as tough as the iron makes, but lighter.

The jack pads instead of full bumpers would help, and the lightweight racing batteries I have been looking at , have extended *shelf* or storage life as well.

Aluminum heads, intake manifolds, alternator?, water pump, etc...

Let us know how it's coming along, and what style you are building. Pics when you get 'em too !

Roger Stine · #3 (**permalink**) 02-17-2002, 10:51 AM

Save a hundred pounds with a carbon body.

scratch · #4 (**permalink**) 02-18-2002, 08:36 PM

Stephen,
I built my own C.... replica with the same concept in mind and I can tell you that you must look at every part with the mindset of how can I remove another ounce? But don't lose sight of safety.

A good book (actually 3 in his series) to read from cover to cover is Carroll Smith's "Tune to win" He pulls no punches on how to build correct vehicles.

Good luck...my project took 5 yrs and 3 months before I drove it, and it's still not complete...but it is straight and nasty.

scratch

stephen low · #5 (**permalink**) 02-22-2002, 01:53 AM

Thank you for your comments, I had considered carbon but the cost down here in Oz is exorbitant and the company I have pencilled in as the number one pick doesn't to my knowledge offer this option.

I am not looking at very low profile tyres as I want to fill the wheel arches properly and will use some form of halibrand replica, but I will research the weight factor in all this.

Finally I am more than happy to post pics once I start anything substantial but realistically this is still probably several years away, unless I win a lottery somewhere!!

I am still keen to get any feedback on aluminium ford blocks as this is a substantial lump of metal that would reduce overall weight considerably. Is there anyone with a comment on the motor issue?

I am all eyes (ears??).

Slowy

crillyiv · #6 (**permalink**) 02-22-2002, 02:47 AM

Stephen,
I have an all aluminum Ford 460. I bought my car used with the engine already installed. A friend who is researching the same issue tells me the aluminum 460 block is 165 lbs and the cast block is 290 lbs for a difference of 125 lbs. The aluminum block is also $4,700 according to him.
My car weighed 2740, 1300 front and 1440 rear, with a full 17 gal fuel cell. Less fuel would be 2620 lbs. The SPF website says a SPF with a 460 would be 2660 lbs so my car is 40 lbs lighter. My car has a full width 5 point rollbar, halon fire bottle system, accusump, etc, that all add weight. All told I can see that 125 lbs may be an accurate weight difference from aluminum to cast.
There are aluminum Ford small blocks as well but I do not have any info on them.
Good luck and enjoy the ride.

stephen low · #7 (**permalink**) 02-22-2002, 04:20 AM

Thanks Jim for the details, I'II just have to metricize your imperial numbers first (when are you guys going to catch up with the rest of the metric world????) but the scope of the difference in weight is exactly what I am trying to sus out.

I will be going with a small block so I suspect the variation will be marginally less, but something around 70kg I think sounds about right and far outsrips most other weight saving options, body work aside.

I'II just keep on reading

regards

Wayne Maybury · #8 (**permalink**) 02-22-2002, 07:40 AM

Get hold of an up-to-date Ford Motorsport catalogue. They used to offer several aluminium blocks but they tend to change the product line year to year so I don't know what is presently available. My '99 catalogue has one 5.0 L and two 5.7 L aluminium blocks listed but all 3 are dry sump. Of course there are a lot of aluminium heads on the market.

Wayne

crillyiv · #9 (**permalink**) 02-22-2002, 10:18 AM

Thanks Stephen, I had been wondering how to spell "sus". If I might ask you one favor, is it "chassis" or "shassis"? I guess if we are the new empire we can use whatever measuring system we want.

As far as the dry sump issue;
Many of the aluminum blocks will be listed as dry sump blocks but they can also be used with a wet sump system. My engine was made to be used either way. All that needs to be done is remove some plugs and replace others.

Ikestaa · #10 (**permalink**) 02-23-2002, 09:28 AM

Shelby, Southern Automotive and now Genesis all offer aluminum 427 blocks for a little over $4,000. We personally are going with an iron 428 with aluminum heads, water pump, intake manifold, and flywheel. Southern Automotive gave me a quote of 490lbs for total weight, about 50 more than a 351.

CSX 4027 · #11 (**permalink**) 02-23-2002, 11:07 AM

Have a salad

Andy Dunn · #12 (**permalink**) 02-23-2002, 01:39 PM

ford makes a few aluminum blocks for nascar engines. I think you will find most of them here
http://www.fordracing.com/performanc...ine+Block'

but be ready to get belly up to the bar with a fist full of dollars

Ford 460 Aluminum will run you $4500 US / $8,780.47 AUD
http://re-racing.com/Merchant2/merch...y_Code=100242A

Ford 351 Aluminum will run you $3300 US / $6,429.25 AUD
http://re-racing.com/Merchant2/merch...ory_Code=11591

those are some sweet blocks

Andy
http://www.cobralads.com

Whaler · #13 (**permalink**) 02-24-2002, 06:03 PM

By using the edelbrock aluminum intake heads and waterpump I knocked 110 pounds off my 428's original weight.

Not only should one think about minimizing weight but balance...one should be looking for 50/50 distribution.

Good wheels takes weight off the car...the capacity of the fuel cell is a weight consideration. That battery as stated previously.....using aluminum instead of SS whereever you can.

The size OD and wall thickness of the rollbar..

Interior appointments can save or add weight..plush or spartan.

It all adds up

Tim

scratch · #14 (**permalink**) 02-24-2002, 06:34 PM

I agree with Whaler...these cars are so light anyways they need very careful weight distribution, spring ratios, and brakes balance.

I also have aluminum heads, pushed the engine back as far as possible and have drilled lightening holes inside of lightening holes.

I believe the car needs @ 2200 lbs properly placed with anything over 300 hp, or else it rides like a "cart" and is pure scary on most public roads...my experience.

My car came in @ 2000# I'm adding @ 50 lbs. of weight on the right side by carrying jumper cables, critical tools, etc..and using ing the softest settings on all 4 the Aldan shocks

scratch