Rubber brake hose question

Whaler · #1 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 09:42 PM

Hi all
I am working on bleeding my brakes. Looks like several attempts will be made in order to achieve an airfree system with a nice firm pedal.
Anyhow I have Raybestos rubber brake hoses at each corner ( I know SS braided will help firm up the pedal too) I have found one corner has a slight weep of fluid between the rubber sleeve and the banjo fitting for the caliper end. I do not think its a matter off tightening anymore on the nut or the crush washer as when I saw this be a fix it was usually a drip right off the nut itself.
This looks to be an internal leak at the hose to fitting.

Anyone ever seen this before?

BTW looks like I will be taking off the calipers to rotate and fool with in order to finally bleed the system, as numerous bleedings and fluid still result in a pedal to the floor first stab. The second stab is much higher and firmer.

I added 2 psi residuals as well in both front and back because I have my pedals & MC on the floor

*&^%%%$@ brakes!!

Tim

ls1ac · #2 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 10:03 PM

Sounds like if the first push is to the floor and then the second is good then the pistons are coming off the rotors too far. Check to see if the rotor is warped or wobbling and pushing the pistons back. Air in the system will give a soft push no matter what. If fluid is leaking out it would take a lot to make a full pedal travel.
I have seen a bad master cylinder that required two pumps to get pressure to the system. The seal was bad because the rubber was old and hard, second push it would open up and seal.

KobraKarl · #3 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 11:16 PM

Tim,

did you bench bleed your master? two pumps is a lot of air. or do you have two separate masters? if so, disconnect one and do them separatley. uh......... oh yea your orriginal question......use toilet paper to completely dry your fitting,up around the hose/hosel connection all around ,bone dry, then pump and youll have your anser

Whaler · #4 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 08:38 AM

Hi guys
Thanks for the quick replies
I di not benchbleed my MC as it was in the car already and I thought it was simply a step to save time in the final bleed of the entire system
I have bled the car probably 6-8 times. Each time finding a leak or new leak to tighten up on. Ultiamtely i think I have one hose to replace trying to eliminate leaks first. Once thats done bleeding can truly be done.
Looking at the dust mark on my MC pushrod, It looks like travel on a pump is no more than 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.
The second pump is harder and is about half the travel of the first. Then it gets better as its pumped.
My MC is a floor mounted MC thats actually a new MC made by Raybestos for a Dodge application. There are adapters on it for the remotely mounted reservoirs up on the firewall.

Should i also be looking at length of MC pushrod travel? As it sits the rod is almost all the way IN to the clevis at the brake pedal.

Would lengthening help after I get it bled? I think its air thats getting me.

Tim

PS I may add that I have GM Cadillac calipers with the integral e-brake on the rears. I wonder if they need to be part of this routine ( set-up) They are selfadjusting internally and I have yanked them on and off many times during this process.

Bob Putnam · #5 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 08:59 AM

Whaler,

Master cylinder pushrod length will do nothing except change the position of the pedal - except

Make sure that the piston in the master cylinder can FULLY return. If it is restrained, (by a pedal stop, etc.) it won't allow pressure to be release nor fluid to be replaced as the pads wear. In fact, a problem like this could lead to your current symptom.

Whaler · #6 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 09:16 AM

Thanks Bob

I am going out now to check the travel stop now, as well as buy a new flex hose.
My system is all brand new virgin stuff for those who don't know the car has yet to see the road.

Tim

Bob Parmenter · #7 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 09:34 AM

Just a quick question on basics. Are your calipers oriented so that the bleed valve is at the top and pointing up?

Whaler · #8 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 11:33 AM

here's a checklist i have made this morning

1) My residuals are ported in the proper flow orientations.
2) My leak I spoke of originally in the first post ended up being residual fluid off the TOP nipple of the front caliper dribbling down the outside and coming to and around the rubber hose where the banjo connected to the caliper. I realized this when I saw the minute puddle on the other front corner.
( I thought...christ I can't have two bad hoses!!)
I cleaned up the hoses with tissue and could not reproduce a drip by pumping.
Now when bleeding I disconnect my hose and catch-cup carefully then wipe the nipple and caliper ( in case)
3) I pulled my floor plate off looked at my pedal and my stop is right off allowing for full retraction of the pedal and rod. I even have 1/8 to 1/4 play before the rod touches the internal piston cup. I have since snugged that up a little trying to increase the contact. Lost motion in the rod will not help me either.
4) I did a quick bleed this morning by myself using a stick to keep the pressure on the pedal then cracking the nipple. Still getting some air bubbles.
5) My nipples are all up on the higher point of the calipers.

To do

1) Bleed more and more
2) Maybe think about pulling the calipers to move them around for better orientation of the nipple and any trapped air
3) Reality is that the first stab must be improved, yet in the same breath, maybe I have to get a feel for what Manual brakes feel like? I have always had power brakes on everything i have ever owned.

Onwards Bob........LOL
Thx

KobraKarl · #9 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 12:07 PM

whaler,

zip down to your local auto parts store and grab yourself an auto bleeder (a little devise that you use at the caliper of each wheel in rotation ) just a couple bucks well spent!

and quit talking about your nipples , its disturbing.

Whaler · #10 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 02:29 PM

Hi Karl
Hey this is the only thing I have
http://www.tools-plus.com/lis19200.html

Now are you talking about one of those Vacuum pumps as well??
Need more info.

Tim

Whaler · #11 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 07:16 PM

I broke down and bought a vacuum pump lit for bleeding brakes. This should do it.
I also read on a site where a guy simply uses a great length of tylok tubing and a catch can inside a bucket. he then parks the bucket on the roof of his car. He cracks the bleed screw for the wheel he is doing and then proceeds to pump the brake watching his reservoir level. He will see the fluid passing ut along with entrapped air. The entrapped air will rise up the line as it should. When he releases the pedal its simply brake fluid funneling back in. Does that sound good?

Sounds good and simple but i thought I needed to have an excuse for more tools

Beside I have a McCleod throw out to do next and it may help there too

Tim