ACCUSUMP question...
 

I want to fit a 3qt Accusump on top of my transmission tunnel, behind the shifter for a couple of reasons.
1. I have used up seemingly every single square inch of the engine bay, and
2. I want the higher flow capabilities of the manual valve as advised on Accusump's website, and I therefore need quick access to the valve.

My concern is the temperature of the Accusump during normal driving conditions. Say for example I drive the car for 30 minutes, without ever going anywhere near oil starvation conditions. Does the oil in the Accusump heat up? (ie. Is the oil cirulating through the feed line at all times)

Now say that I shut the car down, having shut the valve off beforehand. Then I restart the car 5 minutes later. The (maybe) cool oil pre-lubes the engine, to be replaced by 200 degree oil straight from the oil pan. This has to heat up the Accusump, right???

I'm worried that the Accusump might be too hot to position so close to my elbow, but how else do you mount it to allow access to the manual valve?

As always, I look forward to learning from your experience!

Craig - hmmm.

Nope - oil does not "continuously circulate" through the Accusump, but if you have it "on", and there is a significant difference in the pressure it "sees" (i.e from high rpm down to idle), then there would be some oil going in and out of it, and I guess it would be hot after a while.

I don't use my Accusump for hot restarts when the engine has been sitting for only a few minutes. I only use it for pre-oiling when starting the thing up after it has been put away red hot and left for a couple of days or longer (i.e. all oil drained down).
After all, production engines (and those without accusumps) survive even cold starts OK, we just like to "baby" our engines!

You don't have to put the valve on the end of the Accusump - you could run some hose to position the valve where you want it, and mount the unit out of harms way. I have heard of units being mounted in the back of a car, with the valve handy for the driver's reach. I suppose at some stage the losses in a long length of hose might reduce it's effect.

What is the " significant" difference in the flow rates manual valve vs electric? I do like the convenience of the electric valve.

Ultimately, if you do end up with a hot accusump positioned where your arm might brush against it, there is nothing to stop you from insulating it in some fashion.

HTH

Wilf - thanks for the quick reply!

I have seen mention of the refill rates of the larger manual valve internals to the more restrictive electric valve, but here's the only mention I could find of it on Canton's own website :

"Note: The refill rates on the electric valves are suitable and recommended for Street and Drag Strip use. On Circle Track and Road Course applications where quick refill rates are required, we recommend the manual valve listed below."

So, street and drag strip use (only requiring the occasional refill) are fine with the electric valve.

If I mount the Accusump in the boot / trunk, everyone around my home will accuse me of running NOS. How little they know!!! %/

Now, another question.... :) If you don't prelube your motor when it's hot, when do you turn the valve on/off? As far as I see it, if you leave the valve open the Accusump will dump all 3 litres of oil into your motor as soon as you shut the motor down (because it has seen a pressure drop). Without the motor running to refill the Accusump, those 3 litres will just sit in the oil pan until the motor has restarted and there's enough engine oil pressure to fill the Accusump back up. In this case, you're still filling the Accusump with a "new" 3 litres of hot oil, but without the benefit of the pre-lubing.

I haven't even started on my other questions yet.... Maybe I should just fit the damn thing and stop thinking about it!!!

Thanks again,
Craig

i have the 2 quart Accusump, mounted on the cross member in front of the engine. Like above, i thought about using a manual valve in the cockpit, with the A'sump in the trunk, but i already have a Halon tank back there, and it was going to be expensive to do that.

I would suggest you put the sump in your trunk, not in the cockpit, it really will cramp things in the cockpit. Also, you might consider the smaller sump, it is shorter.

The advantages of the electric valve: it is always open to let oil return to the accusump if the engine pressure is higher, but it only releases oil back to the engine when you toggle the valve electrically. With a manual valve, you are constantly flushing oil back and forth depending on your pressure differential, so that at idle, you will have several extra quarts of oil in your engine, that the engine has to clear out when the rpm increases. Lots of oil foaming and splash and such.

In other words, oil pushed back to the sump stays there until you toggle the valve, or leave it on. I use mine to pre-oil for starting, and only leave the valve on/open when i am on a race track, as otherwise the cylinder moves back and forth all the time, perhaps increasing the wear inside the Accusump. Thus, for street driving, i preoil, then turn it off, and the engine will pump the excess sump oil back to the sump, even with the valve closed, where the extra oil stays until i release it again.

I have a lighted Accusump switch mounted on a small plate just under my dash, i can flick it with my finger, when my hand is on the gearshift. The light reminds me if i am "open" or "closed."

You have to have the valve end of the Accusump just a bit higher than the other end, so any air/foam does not gradually collect and reduce your Accusump's capacity. You don't want the Accusmp to send a big flush of air into a stressed engine..

Be sure you do not wire your electric valve so it is powered even with the car off, as i did at first, it slowly eroded the contacts in the electric valve, which Canton replaced for me free, however. I inadvertenly ran an "always hot" lead to the solenoid, not a lead just powered when the ignition was on. I used AN 10 lines to the the engine, running it to a spare inlet on the remote oil filter adaptor, as i custom modified my engine block adaptor, and thus had the original oil return available. You can return the oil to several places. I don't belive you need to add the flow resistance of a "check valve", as i don't think the oil can back flow thru the oil pump gears and the anti-drainback rubber valve in the oil filter anyway.

By the way, i plumped in a 20 PSI oil pressure warning light into my oil system, i have the high intensity light mounted on a tiny plate on my dash, aimed right at my eye. If i lose pressure, and don't notice the gage, it will get my attention quickly. A cheap insurance. It was like $20 bucks from Pegasus racing.

I think the only use for a manual valve if one only races the car, and just wants to leave it on all the time. I think this is not good for a street engine, as it leaves too much oil in the engine at low rpm.

By the way, the oil vave is mounted to the Accusmp so the tiny arrow on it points AWAY from the Accusump.

Let us know if you have any questions.

Craig - "what Hal said"!!

I use my accusump for preoiling for cold starts, and once the engine is started I flip off the switch. Thus no accumulation of "excess" oil in the sump when the engine stops.

As Hal says - the elec valve acts as a one-way valve when it is not energised.

I also turn it on when I go to road-course track days. I know that under extreme braking, I can uncover the oil pick-up in the sump. (and hence loose oil pressure). So the Accusump saves the engine there.

If you had a manual valve, you would have to remember to turn it "off" before you stopped the engine, else, as you say, all that stored oil would drain back into the sump.

All this, of course, assumes that things work the same way down under as they do here. Doesn't the water swirl around the opposite way when you drain the bath tub or something? Could be your oil might behave differently as well. LOL

750hp Craig WHY would you want 3 quarts of HOT OIL in your lap?? If the line breaks you are a cooked driver, racing suit or not. I have the 3 quart under the right side of my car mounted to the frame. I put a shield on the front to protect the tank. If you want a manual valve on it get a T cable from a truck store. It controls the throttle on Fire trucks when pumping. It turns and locks in 90 degrees. They come in all lenghts. You can cut to fit. Hey Craig I heard you where running NOX the tank was the frame.:LOL: :LOL: I couple of the guys have their tanks on the crossmember in the engine bay. Has far as the valve size, the 2 motor builders said that unless you are running 700 cubes that 1/2" valve is OK. What track has the longest sweeper or 180 turn? The amount of time you are in it is 8-10 seconds. Wost of the cobra gang have mild to wild race motors. Mine has oil limiters in the block and heads to keep the oil more for the crank and cam areas. When it comes to bearings I think these are the most important. Hope this helps. Have a nice day Rick Lake

I have it mounted on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel, leaving plenty of room for passenger's legs. I also ran out of room in the engine bay. It's a truly wonderful gizmo, and helps keep the oil pressure rock solid, even in extreme cornering and stopping situations. Wouldn't leave home without it.

TT

A point not mentioned yet. The increased restriction from the long oil line from the trunk, or the trans tunnel for that matter, probably will negate the benefit of the larger valve opening. You want the line to be as short as practical, and the valve mounted remotely from the canister, as close to the engine inlet as well. Less flow restriction/reaction time for the oil to pressurize the line between the valve and inlet.

Be careful if you mount it under the car, any impact on the canister will jam the piston inside. If you drive like me, (at least one or two agricultural excursions per event while looking for the edge) that means a sturdy shield.

McFEz

If you truly don't have a safe place to put your Accusump, and i concur about three liters of near boiling oil in your crotch, and the risk of a ding to the cylinder negating its ability to function, consider an electric Weldon pump to pre-lube, or to pump oil here or there.

Trying to pump cold viscous oil four or five feet to your engine to prelube it is not very useful.

I woul personally forgoe an Accusump, rather than put it in the cockpit. Perhaps the money put in a road racing pan, i have a road race Aviad, might be a better solution. I have hundreds of laps in my Windsor with this pan, and often run a video on the rollbar, and can watch my oil pressure, and i never have any oiling issues in corners. It has four trap doors to hold the oil by the pickup.

I guess i need to ask again what your reason is for the Accusummp, mostly i did mine just to have another modification to keep my busy tinkering.

I use straight Kendall GT 40 weight, and the Accusump pressurizes the engine to about 35 psi in very cold weather, and that's a good thing. Also, it acts as a back-up for the road racing pan--I've got a Canton with baffles galore, but it still fluttered the oil pressure a bit in turns. Accusump fixed that right away.

TT

I've "heard" that starting an engine cold without prelube amounts to "wear and tear" equal to about 300 to 500 miles to driving. Not a "huge deal" if you ask me. But having that "sump" full of oil in the cockpit with me IS a huge deal. I'll pass on the sump idea thanks!

Ernie

Uh, Ernie, if a cold start without prelube really amounted to 300-500 miles ordinary wear, you'd have the equivalent of 60,000 to 100,000 miles on your car with only 200 starts. That just can't be right. Heck, my old beat up Isuzu Trooper with a bizillion starts on it still runs well. I will grant you that the cockpit mounting is less than ideal, but, there wasn't room in the engine compartment, unfortunately. First class fittings and a vigilant eye have kept me within my comfort zone; the car would have to be virtually cut in two to cause a disconnect. Yes, anything's possible.

TT

I hear you! 300 to 500 miles of wear is what I've heard, and it is hard to believe, thats why I don't take it as a "big deal". Then again, it's amazing how many miles a car engine can go when there "freeway" miles compared to stop and go miles! So how much "wear" is there, really, in 300-500 miles at "cruising" speed? And is that a "winter" or "summer" startup? No doubt the "research" was done by some company promoting "Slick 50" or similiar compond.

Now if you had a Classic Roadster that sump would fit nicely behind the seats on the "shelf" back there!

Ernie

I have been interested in engine lubrication for about 25 years, and have read all that i find on the matter. The comment that the vast majority of engine wear occurs at start up is likely not true, given the usual circumstances.

I did once wipe the bearings on a Tr-4, by running straight 30 oil, and repeatedly starting it on really cold, like below zero Nebraska temps.

But despite the advertising i heard a few years ago:

"the toughest thing you can do to your engine is starting it..."

i don't think so. I read somewhere that this way of thinking got a start somewhere a long time ago, and has been repeated as fact ever since. I have also read that with good oil and filtration, there is neglegable wear on rotating parts even with very high mileage. My opinion is that most cars endure counless cold starts with all varieties of oil quality and viscosity, and yet these cars come to the end of their life not because of lubrication failure, but myriad other causes. One of our nurses recently had her oil light come on in her KIA, but decided to drive all the way home anyway, arriving with engine knock and rattle. So she ended up getting a new motor because there was no oil in the sump. I also just read a just out English car magazine, and there was an editorial on the very high number of rental/lease cars in England needing replacement engines because the owners never checked the oil level. So they suggested manufactures put in oil level warning lights. So many cars nowadays run hot, use thin oil, and have very small oil capacities for packageing reasons.

My business partner, with a 911S, a Turbo Porsche, and a C5, the other day asked me why is pickup seemed to be running hot. We went out to the parking lot, his coolant was low, and so i pulled his dipstick (the engine one!!), and he had no oil on it. Anohter friend came to my house this summer, the diesel rattle in his rental truck seemed unusally loud, and it too had no oil on the dipstick.

So many people just gas and go, and never check anything under the hood. These are the cars that have lubrication failures.

Ah well, have a good day. Just more stories about oiling. I have a few of my own, too.

Thanks for all the input, but now I have more questions.... %/
HAL and WILF, you both mention the elec valve acts as a one-way valve, and HAL also about the extra oil in the pan at idle. Now I'm wondering how long it takes to fill the Accusump after a pressure differentiation. For example, if my engine idles at 50psi hot and runs at 60psi at 3000rpm, during highway driving my engine and Accusump will be stable at 60psi. If I pull up at some traffic lights and the idle oil pressure drops to 50psi, the Accusump will immediately dump some (all???) of it's 3 quarts into the engine in an attempt to restore the 60psi pressure. When this doesn't happen, wouldn't the Accusump immediately "recharge" itself at the current pressure, and fill itself to a stable 50psi pressure? If that's the case, isn't the oil pan right away at the same oil level as when the car is cruising along the highway?

WILF - I could flush 3 quarts of oil down the toilet just to check, but you know how touchy those damn greenies are... :rolleyes:

RICK - I was thinking just the same thing today while I was measuring up the car. I really don't have a lot of room for my elbow behind the shifter. I've mounted the elec fans in front of the radiator, and that has cleared enough room for the Accusump above the crossmember. If I do go with the manual valve (with some long distance road-racing in mind), I will definitely go for something like the T-Handle you mentioned.

McFEZ - The way Cranky praises you, I wouldn't have thought that you were capable of punting your Cobra off into the infield. You're human after all!!!!! ;) I see what you're saying about the flow restriction over the length of the hose, and after trying to blow air through 5ft of hose compared to 1ft, I know what you mean.

HAL - While I do like the idea of prelubing, I'm most interested in saving my motor from hurting itself on the racetrack. I do have a Canton road-racing pan with the 4 trap doors and windage tray and crank scraper etc, but I remember Richard Hudgins JBL mention that his cars still see oil surge with these pans. Now, I can't claim to have a patch on a JBL car, but the fact is that these pans aren't a total solution (as also witnessed by Tom T.), so I'm happy to spend a few more dollars to save my bearings/crank/conrods. I have a lot more than a couple of hundred dollars tied up there, so it's cheap insurance. Oh, and I'm with you - I like to have all the bells and whistles on the car!

TOM - I'm glad to hear that the Accusump has been effective for you also. It makes it easier to spend the $$$ when you know that others are happy with the product.

ERNIE - It's been a few months now. Isn't it time another Cobra sat in your garage, or are you waiting to take delivery of the Kirkham raffle car?!?

Craig - you guys down under sure do know how to complicate things. The Accusump is just another shiny piece of good techy stuff to fit and gaze at. Period.

Actually, being sensible about it (I do have to try hard) - the 3qt (or 2) moniker is a tad misleading. All the thing is, is a cylinder with a sealed piston running up and down it internally. Air one side, oil the other. You can "preload" the air side to whatever level you like (Accusump recommend something like 5 psi remaining even when the piston has expelled all oil).
So....... when the engine generates oil pressure, oil flows into the Accusump until the air pressure on one side of the piston equals the oil pressure on the other. This may be 3 qts, it may also be a lot less, depending on how you "preload" the air side.

If your engine runs, in the cruise, at 60 psi, and then you come down to, say 50psi at tickover, oil will flow OUT of the Accusump (assuming an open mechanical valve) until the pressure on the air side equals 50psi. But not all 3qts - just enough to drop the pressure and equalise it both sides of the piston. So you will not flood the sump with all 3 qts of oil in that situation.

As to how long the thing takes to recharge - I dump pretty much ALL of the oil in the Accusump through my engine before cold starts. I then don't rev the cold engine, but let it tickover, and in this condition the engine oil pressure takes about 10 seconds to come up to full "normal" levels - i.e. to refill the Accusump. If I rev'd it a bit, it would take a shorter time.

Once the oil is warmed up and considerably "runnier", this cycle takes a lot less time. The time taken will also vary from engine to engine, for example a high volume oil pump would probably refill the Accusump quicker.

You are going to owe us all a beer at DVSFIII!

Ernie,

My first "roadster" was a Classic Roadsters car, and it was a very good car indeed.

TT

Man I can't wait to get "back in the saddle"! Might be this summer, you know, after all the prices go up again, lol.

Ernie

750hp Hey Craig, watch out for that McFez guy. He is the only one who runs in the weeds and has a periscope in his car. I think he is in the grass mowing bussiness. His car is 3 1/2 inches off the ground. Stable and quick. He gave me a ride up in New Hampshire and forgot about the extra 200 lbs in the pass. seat. We bottomed out and cracked the oil pan and put 11 quarts on the track at the end of the day. I am thankful that Don didn't hurt his motor. That 3 extra quarts saved his motor. His is mounted on the front x member that the front shocks get support from. 1 note about the air pressure in the accusump tank will set when the oil goes from the tank to the motor and back. Low psi pressure in the tank will let the oil stay in a idle BUT may not help when doing that big sweeper. I am surprised that with that 750 motor you have not gone dry sump. That is my plan for this year. Aviad makes systems for all the ford motors. I will get the 3 gallon tank and put it in the right fender just like the originals. Rick Lake

Rick,
I haven't been able to find a cam-driven dry sump assembly over here, and I don't really have a lot of room for running more pulleys off the crank. My blower/crank brace takes up soom room, and takes away some options. I'm planning on fitting a couple of Turbonetics T76 Big Thumper B/B turbos in place of the supercharger in 12 months or so, along with a crank driven 4 stage dry sump pump. I just want the Accusump for the time being. It's the sort of thing that doesn't seem to lose value, so I'll use it for the time being.