Oil pump priming
 

I have pulled the distributor and am priming the oil pump and galleys using a drill/Milodon shaft.

I am getting good pressure (~10lbs) on my mechanical gauge and I rotated the crank assembly through 720' to lube things as best as I can.

Some paperwork I have on newly starting an engine says that I should be able to pull a valve cover off and see that the valve train is being lubricated also. So I did this and other than the oil used in the build process, it seems pretty dry.

I realize that the valve train has moved very little, given that I only turned it 720'...but should I see much oil at this point?

I have read threads that spoke of oil coming out the breather tubes under race conditions through a turn. With that much oil in the valve covers under load, it seems that I should be getting more oil flow than I am during the prime.

Should I worry about this???:confused:

-John

Hi John,

I just did that procedure the other day before my first start. I was getting over 60 psi. on the gauge. Are you turning the shaft in the counter clockwise rotation? (reverse on the drill motor)

Sydney

Like Sydney said said, it sounds like your going clockwise with your drill hence the low oil pressure. If you were doing it correctly dont run it. Go back through and check the pickup to pan clearance if its not that check out the pump.

You should see oil pushing out around whatever rockerarms or rocker arm shafts. Keep priming until you see this happen. It might take a few min.

Thanks for the quick feedback.

Yes, I am going counter clockwise. But I will admit at first I wasn't.

I did not run the pump for minutes...more like 30 second bursts, partly because I thought I was going to burn out the drill. It got pretty warm.

I will switch to a heavier duty drill and give it a go again in the morning.

If I still come up short on pressure or valve train oil I guess I will need to check the pump/pick-up...

Thanks again...sidney, KrAzEcJ and michael

-John

Hi John, I just noticed you live in Dawsonville also! When I get back in town we will have to get together and show you my Unique I'm working on.

A good 2800 rpm on the drill represents 5600 rpm at the crank. You should see full pressure after a very short period. This will vary given the amount of air in the galley's presently, oil temp, oil viscosity and drill speed.

You may want someone watching the gauge for you as it is often hard to see while operating the drill, and once the drill stops the pressure will drop pretty quickly.

You should turn the crank a few times to rotate the oil around all the moving parts but even if you didn't do this you should still see oil dripping off the rocker arms within 30 seconds or so.

Running the pump in reverse does no harm. We've all done it. You just pushed oil or air into the oil pan rather than oil into the engine.

Total time to prime the engine shouldn't need to be more than a few min. Once oil is coming off the rocker arms you've gotten oil to the highest point and are good to begin the starting procedure.

It is worth a look under the car before you start it. You may find small leaks (or large leaks) you can fix before start up.

Fox, if, after using a stronger faster drill, you do not see an increase in oil pressure and/or see oil dripping from the rockers, DO NOT START THE ENGINE . You must look for pickup clearance or missing gallery oil plugs or something of that nature.

Paul

Well...

Using a heavy duty drill, I now get just over 25 psi but still no noticibe flow through the holes for the push rods.

I looked in the drills owners manual and it gives a no-load max at 2700 rpm's. So even with the load at worst I should be getting 1000 or so, meaning the equilivent of 2000+ crank rpm's.

Just to be clear, this is a 302 with a HV mellings pump in a road race Canton pan with a windage tray. The cylinder heads are aluminum GT-40X. It is on a run stand and not in the car.

Before I drain the block, and remove the pan to check the pick-up and pump, is there anyting else I should be aware of or try? Is there possibly a gasket covering a galley like what can happen with the water galley and a cylinder head gasket if it is put on backwards?

I appreciate the help and insight.

-John

There shouldn't be any gasket problem that would block oil flow. Don't worry about your drill, just run it counterclockwise wide open and even smoke it if you have to. You will be able to get full pressure if everything is working properly. If not, the first thing I would do after pulling the pan is one; make sure pick up tube is attached, two; put some clay on the bottom of the pickup and put the pan back on. Then remove it and gauge the thickness of the clay making sure there is proper clearence. This alone is usually the problem when oil pressure is low or non existent.
Tim

I have seen builders overlook installing one or more of the galley plugs on the front and or back of the engine. Oil will pour out the back of the block and on the floor if it's the rear plug, or if it is the front ones it will not be visible (internal leakage) without removing the front cover (most often overlooked). You should be able to build 45-60 lbs with the drill and an un- modified HV pump. As Mike stated above, you must get oil to the top end before you light the fire!. You must have a minimum of 3/8" of clearance between the pickup and the floor of the pan. Be sure the gaskets are in place between the pump/block & pump/pickup tube.

Rick

One last thought: The bypass plunger in the pump could be stuck open with some grit or foreign material, thereby puting the pump into bypass mode with most of the oil being returned to the pan.:( :(

2000 rpm you should easily see 50 psi. You still should see oil off the rocker arms at any psi as this is a function of flow rather than pressure. You may have an obstruction but that would only create more pressure rather than less enless it occured between the pan and the pump. Is it possible you fabricated your own gasket for the oil pan pick up? Is it possible the pick up is so close to the pan it is not getting oil? (seems unlikely)

I'd go get a brand new drill from a big box retailer. Lets say one that has the motto "satisfaction garanteed" I'd run that mother until it smoked (hopefully getting you lots of oil pressure).

If the drill doesn't satisfy you return it when you are done. I used a Sears 18v cordless with great success. It really shouldn't be as hard as it has been for you. You mau want to pull the pan and look and see if all is as it should be.

The only other thing I can think of is if the oil pump didn't get properly tightened it might be pushing oil out the mounting flange but even then a fresh pump should flow pleanty of oil unless it was really loose. You really can't install head gaskets backwards and still get the head dowels seated so this is pretty unlikely.

The other scenario is a bad pump. It happens. You may want to pull the pan and inspect the assembly and change the pump just in case.

Rick is 100% right, I left a galley plug out when I installed my 427. I mentioned looking at the floor after you primed right :). Fortunately it was the one in front.

Well sometime this week I will drain the oil and check the clearence of the pick-up, the gaskets and the pump function.

I am pretty sure the front plugs are in place. I did not place them though, since I started with a short block from Ford Racing. I will make the call to check that they were at least supposed to.

I hope it is just that simple.

I will have a follow-up some time soon. Thanks for everyone's input. :)

-John

While your on the phone, ask them what they used for clearances on the assembled parts.

Too much clearance can cause low OP and early engine failure.

John, don't forget the possibility of gauge problems....although unlikely. I installed a TEMPORARY mechanical gauge last week in the engine compartment so I could both see the immediate pressure as I primed the pump and to verify the dash gauge. For $15 you get to check your dash gauge and verify your priming efforts as you continue your search. Good Luck!

Don't forget to check for a missing rod or main bearing shell. I left out 1/2 of a main bearing shell years ago on a 302 and I got just about 10psi.

Rene'

Perhaps the 1/2" press in plug in the lifter valley (under the intake) is not there.

You should be able to get cold oil to push 50 psi without an electric drill, and oil really should be dribbling out of the pushrods up there at the rockers.

I agree with SCOBRAC on the possibility of a bad pump. I just had a 460 done at a race shop with a canton pan and melling pump set up. Turned out I had a bad pump sent to me.

Are you running a remote oilfilter? We had a member that had the remote system plumbed bachwards .Went through at least two stroker engines.The check in the filter makes flow direction critical.
Where are you getting your pressure readings? Remember pressure and flow are associated but not the same thing.

Fox - Mike Henry is right on the money here.. If you are running a remote oil filter, swap the hoses and try it again. Also - HV oil pumps in 302's are a bad combination - particularly with a roller cam. This has nothing to do with your oil pressure right now, but it may have a very bad affect in the future..