Oil Cooler temp sending unit Location
 

I'm going to run an oil cooler built into my Griffin radiator,sorta like a trans. oil cooler on a passenger car,I'll also have the remote filter located on the drivers side front inner apron........One oil line coming from the enigne block to the remote filter,then to the cooler,then from the cooler back to the engine..........
Question is I want my oil temp sending unit to give me my oil temp reading AFTER the cooler,I want to know the oil temp going into the enigne,not whats in the oil pan........Anyone have any ideas how/where to mount it??????????? Pictures would be a big help..............

Thanks;

David

This should do it:
http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/Photos/Itmpprt.jpg
http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/plumbacc.html

Scott;

Thanks,that's exactly what I was looking for,this should do the job very nicely.........

One more question,as I have never run an oil cooler,what size lines do you recommend,10AN or 12AN?????????

331 cu in,9quart road racing oil pan,13to1 compression race only motor,the oil pump is a Melling stock volume pump,but modified for racing with an adjustable pressure relief,right now set at approx. 65 psi at speed and should have about 35 or so psi at idle,in a 65 Mustang road race car............solid roller cam with oil restrictors,this motor probably will not see more than 7000rpms.........races usually last anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes with the occasional 1 hour Enduro..........

Thanks;

David

David,
The best site around has been proven again, you got great advice and sources for parts to make your job easier. The cooler should allow oil to reach about 220 degrees as soon as possible because it needs to reach this temp to out-gas properly and is also the temp oil is most effective (short answer). You need a T-stat or bypass valving to reach this temp in your system. Without this function oil will take much longer to reach temp.
Cooler design or tube diameter should not restrict oil flow or it will cause a pressure drop through cooler. The hose size and length is also a consideration and should not restrict flow when t-stat is wide open. Engine builder will help with oil temps in terms of min/max and the viscosity that is best for your engine. As 210 220 is the min a good max temp would be around 240 to 260. I am sure others can help here with there min to max desired temps but go to the site of the oil you like and see the charts of (temp VS. viscosity VS performance).
Controlling this temp goes hand in hand with coolant temps. If coolant is out of control then oil temp will also be hard to keep in range.
Use good hose and fittings with protection from rubbing. Avoid strain on anything with engine movement if not on solid mounts.

David,

I use -12 everywhere on the pressure side (drysump).

I have my temp sender and temp warning light in the remote filter housing. They are before the cooler so that I have a better idea of the bearing temps.

Scott

Checking it in the pan or on the way to the Dry Sump tank or in the Dry Sump tank is actually better ....

Morris

Agreed. I check on the return side at the screen-type filter before the tank, not the filter on the pressure side.

The pan would probably be the most accurate but dirt guys, like me, develope an aversion to mounting anything low on the pan since it won't stay there very long.:(
Scott

David,
What are the fitting sizes in the rad.? If you are talking about #6 fittings or so the the pressure drop across internal Radiator cooler will be high. This P drop will be too high and defeat the #12 feed= return line size. Adding 220 to 240 degree oil to an already taxed coolant system may not help on a race toy. They do it on factory cars but have all engineering paramiters to design a give and take system.
Adding a DPDT SW = double pole double throw switch with 2 sensors lets you read 2 points but temp at engine is more useful.

Thanks guys for all the info,plenty to think about before plumbing the oil cooler...........

I'm fixing to order the Griffin radiator so I can get any size AN fittings,the oil cooler is in the drivers side tank with a fitting near the top and the other near the bottom of the tank,I'll order it with 12AN fittings.........the reasons I plan to use this type of cooler is that it is easier to plumb and on short tracks I'll run I have seen excessive oil temps from guys with air/oil coolers,not getting enough air flow thru the cooler to do the job.......

I run a Griffin in my street car and have not had any problems in 8 years with it and they will build most any type radiator you want and are very reasonable in their prices..............

Most people I've talked to agree that the oil temp should be from 210 to 230 under race conditions.........

Being this is the first race car I have built with an oil cooler,I have been looking at other cars to see how they run their set-up and talking with the other drivers getting their views on the subject..........have gotten a lot of different ideas and thoughts,that's why I'm asking here........

I think the majority agree they want to know their oil temp after the cooler going into the engine,that's why I asked about that here,looking for all different perspectives before I plumb this thing to try and make an informed decision.........

The oil pan I have has had the oil temp bung in the pan welded up by the prevouis owner as he did not use an oil temp gauge.....so I can not use that one.......

Also,my remote oil filter adapter that will me mounted on the drivers inner apron is such that the inlet is on the top of the pic or coming out of the engine,the outlet would be on the bottom or going into the cooler,does it make any difference if the filter is before or after the cooler?????? I have heard most like it before the cooler to keep any debris out of the cooler vs. after the cooler where debris could get into the cooler and possibly restrict flow thru it........

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...28MVC-018S.JPG

My only other question is the pros and cons of knowing the oil temp coming out of the engine vs. knowing the oil temp going back into the engine??????????

Right now I can plumb things either way or even both if needed.............

Thanks for all the advise,keep it coming............

David

David,
I’ve always run Griffin. On my dirt car I run the oil cooler in the radiator because it’s less complicated and it keeps my water/oil temps in the desired range. If I ran longer races, on hooked-up, hammer down tracks, I’d run a separate Setrab oil-to-air cooler. With the separate oil cooler, as long as you have the airflow, the temps will be lower for both the water and the oil. The Cobra has an Earls oil cooler (identical to a Mocal). It is in the standard location and temps are never a problem.

I’m surprised that the majority takes temps after the cooler. I want to know the maximum oil temp that the engine and bearings are seeing. I will do what is necessary, with regard to cooler types, airflow, etc, to control maximum temps for water and oil. Monitoring temps after the cooler implies that you want to make sure minimum oil temp is not too low. You certainly are not concerned with or learning anything about the max temp by checking the oil at its lowest temp. That’s backwards to my thinking.
Scott

Scott;

Thanks for the reply,this is the kind of info I'm looking far................

So far,on my street car with a 351-W and no oil cooler,I generally come off the track (15 to 25 minute session) with my water temp between 180 and 190(good I think),my oil temp is usually on 230 ( anything over 200/210 and I lose about 10 psi of oil pressure vs. oil temps of 185/200).........BTW,I make sure my water temp is at 180 and oil temp is at least 160 or so before going on the track.........

I have had a lot of experience in the last eight years with water pumps/pulleys/mechanical fans/electric fans/thermostats,so I think I have that part down pretty good as far as engine water temps go,just now learning about oil temps...........

I have also found no real difference when using 15/40 conventional oil or 10/30 synthetic oil in my oil temps and pressure,but I prefer synthetic,I think it will take the heat better and provide overall better engine protection.....

The track I will run the most is 1.8 miles long,I think 14 turns and fairly tight,the front straight is not that long and I should hit about 115 to 120 mph,after that speeds will be from about 30 to 70 mph on track........

I know running an alcohol late model dirt car and an asphalt gas road race car are two different animals,but what are the temps for your water and oil that you shoot for????? Also,do you know or have you checked to see just how much the oil cooler lowers the oil temp????? I guess my question is about how much should an oil cooler lower the oil temp..........??????

Seems as of the last 2 or 3 years a lot of the Vintage Road Racers have switched to the oil cooler in the radiator vs. the air/oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator,they all have different reasons,but most agree the oil cooler in the radiator works better.........

I can always mount a sending unit before AND after the cooler and check both reading,should not be that hard,will also tell me how efficient the cooler is...........

Still researching,still looking,getting good feedback,thanks guys.........anyone else want to tell me of their particular set-ups,I'm all ears,before I go and plumb this thing up..........

David

David,

The dirt engine is on gas so I don't get the cooling effect that the alcohol provides. I like to see 200* on the water and 220* on the oil for both cars on the track, but 230* on oil doesn't worry me at all. I too, like to see 180* on water before getting on it, though I don't always have that luxury with the dirt car. Often I get the green with only 150* on the water, not a good way to treat a motor.

I've never run without a cooler so I can't tell you how much the cooler lowers temps on my cars. I can tell you this about oil/air vs oil/water in a dirt Late Model application: about 10* cooler on water and oil is common when going from the built-in cooler to separate ones. Good Luck.
Scott

Scott;

Thanks for all the info,very informative and helpful.........I would like to keep my water temp anywhere from 180 to 200 and I would like the oil to be in the 200 to 220 range,with 230 as max........just my preferences,I guess I will not really know until it is all together on the track,hopefully in about a month to 6 weeks.....I can always "fine tune" my water temp with thermostat and fan and hopefully that will correspond to the oil temp........

Right now I'm finishing up the engine and plan to bring the car to the fab shop next week for the cage,have an apointment,guy says it will be finished in one week,then I can re-assemble the car and get it on the track...........

Thanks again;

David

David,

Is that picture of your remote filter mount?

I ask because you should NEVER use a cast fitting on the block (in place of where the filter normally fits before relocation), IT WILL CRACK!!!!! Only use a Billet aluminum fitting there. This is good insurance that you won't lose a moder due to a critical part failure.

JM

John;

Maybe I mis-worded the part,it is the mount for the oil filter that will be located on the drivers inner apron,the part that actually mounts to the block is billet aluminum,round,but has a flat machined part on it where the two AN fitting go for the inet ad outlet,did not post a picture of that part............

BTW,is your red Mustang still for sale???? Showed the pics and specs to a buddy,he's interested and working on his wife right now about it..............

David

David,

OK, understood, just wanted to make sure you didn't make a mistake. I know 2 guys that have lost moders to cast fittings.

Yup, the 95 Mustang race car is for sale. I just had a lot of setup work done to the car for the new season, only drove it up the road after that and its running like a stuck pig. I hate to sell all my toys, but its time to consolidate.

Drop me an email or PM if your buddy is interested. I have it posted on a half dozen sites right now, but may get serious soon on some racer sites and maybe Evil Bay.

The car needs nothing and its ready to go with about $10K in spare parts, all new, all new, top shelf parts, no crap.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...threadid=60797

Out of curiosity...

I have the original style Smiths gauges in my car, with the ether filled oil temp sending unit. Never had the oil cooler hooked up before, but am considering running it in the future.

My oil pan doesn't have a bung for the oil temp sending unit - rather, the bung is 1/4" from the frame, and there is no way to get the sender in there.

When I hook up a cooler, all 4 holes on the remote filter pad will be used.

Is there a way to hook up the Smith's gauge?

JP;

This may work for you,I going to use one myself........

David

http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/Photos/Itmpprt.jpg

David,

But what would I plug that into? My current gauge, cable, and sending unit are one piece, and from what I hear, there is a liquid of sorts in there. I don't really know how it all works, but my guess is that the piece you picture (while cool) won't work for me.

Excuse the piss poor photo editing, but I'm tired. I was thinking something along the lines of this. Oil in and out, and a fitting where I can screw in the special temp sending unit.

??

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