Bleeding brakes...no luck

[CriticalMass]

I took over maintaining ERA #164 recently and today I had it up on jackstands. I figured I would flush the break fluid since I don't know when it was last done, and this way I'll have a baseline for the suggested (by ERA) 2 year flushings. I had never flushed break fluid before, but I read the ERA manual and it seemed simple enough.

I started with the right front but was never able to get clear fluid to come out...after about 2 pints. The flushed fluid got clearer, but not quite clear. Are my expectations too high? Should I be shooting for the flushed fluid to appear the same as the new fluid? If not, how should I decide when the system is satisfactorily flushed?

And in addition, even though I was careful, air was introduced into the system so then I started trying to bleed the brakes but was never able to get air bubbles to stop coming from the bleeder nipple. And the air was coming out in significant amounts, so I think air was being drawn in through the nipple's threads. What can I change to prevent this? (I ensured the reservoir level never got too low)

Also, from searching I read a little about forcing fluid INTO the bleeder nipple until air bubbles come out through the reservoir. I have the equipment to do it if its an easier process. Would you suggest it? Anything special I need to know to do it correctly?

Thanks.

[Rick Parker]

Remove the bleeder screw from the caliper and put some grease on the bleeder screw threads.

Rick

[tpiini]

Were you vacuum bleeding? If so, you will pull air around the bleeder screw threads 99% of the time. While it will look like you are getting a LOT of air in the system, you will have no more than a tiny bubble at the bleeder screw when you are done. The suggestion of greasing the screw is a good one. Applying a little RTV to the threads WITHOUT removing the bleeder will also work. If you do vacuum bleed, just find a helper for that last little pedal push to finish off each caliper.

And, yes, you should see new-looking fluid after a thorough bleed. The biggest thing for success is to start with a clean M/C. Suck out the reservoir & wipe it out with a clean rag then fill it with fresh fluid before starting your flush. Otherwise the muck at the bottom of the M/C will continue to mix with your new fluid as you run it through the system. You'll eventually get clean looking fluid to the wheels, but it wil waste a lot of fluid.

[CriticalMass]

No, I wasn't vacuum bleeding. I'll try sealing the threads as suggested, thats good advice. I'll come back if it doesn't work out.

Thanks for the help.

[Excaliber]

I assume your ERA is a Jag IRS setup?

If so, any tips on bleeding those REAR brakes? Dam, I can't even SEE the freakin' bleeder valves, let alone get a wrench on them!

[tpiini]

Originally posted by CriticalMass


No, I wasn't vacuum bleeding. I'll try sealing the threads as suggested, thats good advice. I'll come back if it doesn't work out.

Thanks for the help.

Hoo boy. You were still getting bubbles after two pints of fluid and NOT vacuum bleeding? Forget sealing the threads. I think you need to bench bleed your master cylinder before you go any further.

[ERA Chas]

Russell "Speed Bleeders" are a MAJOR improvement.
They come with sealant on their threads and the internal check valve allows them to remain open while vacuum bleeding.
Use a smear of antiseize on your bleeder nipple to hose connection and you'll have NO bubbles.
The Jags rears are 3/8-24's as are single-piston GM fronts (I believe). Wilwoods are 1/4-28.
Good advice about the master cyls on a car that has been stored so long.

[CriticalMass]

I got the right front and right rear done...eventually got clear fluid to come out and the grease on the threads did the trick to get them bled sufficiently. Unfortunately the nipples on the left front and left rear are all marred up and I can't get them loose with a wrench. So for now the system is half clean fluid, and hopefully no air got into the lines on the left side while I was bleeding the right side. The brake pedal is firm and feels normal so I think everything is ok.

I think I'll wait until an occasion when I need to take the calipers off anyway to fix the marred nipples...hopefully I don't have any brake problems that require bleeding between now and then.

The car has only been stored over the winter...as it has been for its 16 year life, so the master cylinder shouldn't be any cruddier than it always is at the beginning of the driving season.

Thanks for all the advice.

[RICK LAKE]

CriticalMass You didnot say how you where bleeding the system. If the fluid is not black or burnt smell you should be OK there is a kit for checking the fluid for moisture and effective ability of the fluid temp. Use DOT 3 fluid unless you are racing and then you might change it after every run or race weekend when you are doing a safety check of the brake system. If you have access to all bleeders, you will need 2 people to do this. Start with the RR caliper. Fill the RESV first. But a plastic hose over the bleeder put the other end in a bottle with some fluid in it to watch for air bubbles. Pump the pedal SLOWLY and HOLD, crack the bleeder SLOWLY. watch the fluid come out. Don't let the pedal return until the bleeder is retightened. Do this a couple of times, then go to the Left rear, then the Right front and then the left. You may need 2 quarts to do the whole system but when done the pedal should be firm and have about 1 inch of travel before you feel the brakes apply. If you have the orginial Jag calipers in the rear or GM ones in the front you may get alittle rust or brown fuild from them. You have iron calipers and steel cups. The brake fuild breaks down the coating on the cups from the moisture in it. This is the problem they had with the last 60's and early 70's vettes and these car losing there brake pedals. Try this way first, if then it still has a soft pedal get a pressure bleeder system and due it that way. Rick Lake

[RallySnake]

ERA,

Thanks for the tip on the speed bleeders, I will try them.

Excalliber,

I got so frustrated trying to bleed the rear brakes that I made extensions from the top of each caliper to the frame on the left side. Now I just jack up the left side of the car, remove the wheel and bleed both sides right there. Works so much better!

Paul