Consumer Reports Ethanol Article

[Bob In Ct]

Below is a link to an article on ethanol done by Consumer Reports.

Bob


http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...chTerm=ethanol

[Tommy]

So E85 costs the equivalent of #3.99 / gallon. Isn't that a small price for us consumers to pay so corn farmers and auto makers will contribute to the reelection of politicians?

[jarendall]

In my younger days, I drank a lot alcohol made from corn

[Excaliber]

Hawaii recently passed a law requiring a percentage of alcohol in gasoline. As the State is not currently 'ramped up' to do that we'll have to import the bulk of the alcohol. Thinking is this will give a boost to the sugar cane growers down the road.

A nagging detail of this is where the growers are going to get the WATER to grow the substantial qauntitys of sugar cane this plan will require. Sugar Cane needs a LOT of water! Were an Island, HELLO, it's not like we got a lot of 'sources' for the limited water we DO have.

Add to the cost of gas the coming increased cost of a drink of a water around here!

[Bob In Ct]

The problem is the politicians make the decisions but they have little, if any, training in the sciences. These same guys will tell you the oceans are full of hydrogen. The conclusion they draw is that it must be no problem to use it as fuel. The reality is that it is already bonded to oxygen and therefore of no value.

Want to buy some land in Florida, a bridge in New York perhaps?

Bob

[jarendall]

the Japanesse have developed and new super sugar cane to produce ethanol, the cane grows over 12ft tall and grows fast, they say it can be the new fuel of the future

[Excaliber]

...wonder where they get there water... ?

[petek]

Interestingly, the oceans are filled with a little discussed molecules of Dihydrogen Monoxide.

Even more interesting is that Dihydrogen Monoxide might be a perfect fuel for the future. Everyone knows that hydrogen would make a great fuel, but what does hydrogen need to burn? Oxygen!

Dihydrogen Monoxide contains a combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a near perfect balance!

If you would be interested in supporting my research into Dihydrogen Monoxide, please right to your representatives in Congress and the Senate and ask them to fund my research. $100M is not to much to ask for the promise of the potential for unlimited energy!

[Ron61]

Ernie,

You are surrounded by the oceans. Build a few desalination plants to take the salt out of the sea water and you have all the fresh water you need. However with all of the bananas that you grow, why not find a way to convert them t fuel?

Ron

[Bob In Ct]

Hey Pete:
Most of us refer to Dihydrogen Monoxide as H2O or more commonly water. Nice try!

Bob

[Wayne Maybury]

The worst misconception is that fuel ethanol will reduce dependency on oil. Some studies show ethanol production to be slightly energy positive, other studies show it to be negative. In other words, approximately just as much energy (from petroleum) is required to produce the ethanol as is derived from it. Even if the production is energy positive, vehicle fuel consumption is much worse so there is absolutely no reduction in oil dependency.

As Ernie has said, large amounts of water are required to grow the crops whether it be sugar cane or corn, and water in the mid west US where most of the corn is grown, is becoming a real problem. Also greatly increased demand for corn is pushing the price of the corn up. One bad crop and the price will go through the roof.

I am all in favour of alternative fuels, energy conservation, etc. but ethanol from food type crops is not the answer. Once we learn how to economically make ethanol from cellulose waste, that will be a completely different matter.

Wayne

[Excaliber]

One of the keys to making this work is bringing down the cost of converting the raw materials (corn, sugar cane, etc.) into alcohol. It seems Brazil has made tremendous advances in extracting the most using the least energy.

[Wayne Maybury]

Brazil produces their fuel alcohol from sugar cane and burn the left overs (it is called bigass which includes the stalk, leaves, etc) to produce the energy for the distillation process. This is the way they have been able to improve the efficiency of their process. Producing alcohol from sugar cane is also much more efficient than making it from corn.

Wayne

[Wayne Maybury]

I posted earlier that due to the increased demand for corn caused by all the new fuel alcohol plants, the price of corn would surely increase. Well, I checked it today and corn has gone up from about $2.00 per bushel 2 months ago to $3.30 yesterday. While this is not an all time record price, it is more than a 60% increase in about 2 months. This is an example of supply and demand at work in a free market environment. Demand is projected to continue to increase as more fuel alcohol plants are being built, so guess where the price of corn will be going? This will not only effect the cost of fuel alcohol production but it will also increase the cost of many items including animal feed which will result in higher meat prices.

Wayne

[flipper35]

If it takes slightly more or less petroleum products to make ethanol, would it not take about 30% more ethanol to replace petroleum products in the production process? Would we be as well off to convert coal or use the oil in the sands in Utah?