Fishing tips

HSSS427 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 07:11 PM

I was putting the engine back in the car today, and had to pull the carb off in mid stride. Needless to say, nuts and washers started falling and in the end I found 4 nuts and 3 washers. Murphy's Law says that last washer is down inside my intake somewhere. I've searched high and low on the floor and frame, but no luck.

So, any tricks or tips for fishing such objects out of the intake / cylinder head? Looking at going out to get a cheap borescope and flexible magnet retriever tomorrow. Any other ideas for pulling something out, or verifying that there is, or is not, something down in the runners?
Thanks!
Scott

Rick Parker · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 07:42 PM

With a dual plane manifold it may be somewhat difficult to see/get around the curves. Have you looked thouroughly around the top of the engine, footboxes, etc? Near the distributor base, front cover, water pump, etc. Try a mirror and flashlight and look inside the runners. It is possible that it COULD end up in the cylinder (yuck) if it went down a runner with an open valve (NOT GOOD). Don't start it until you find the missing washer OR verify where it isn't (if you know what I mean) this is unfortunate.
Good Luck

Three Peaks · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 08:34 PM

Do whatever you have to do to find that piece. Same thing happened to a friend of mine about 30 years ago. Dropped a 1/4" nut that held his air cleaner on down his manifold and didn't find it. We figured it fell somewhere on the frame where it couldn't be seen. Destroyed the 340 HiPo engine in his 70 Cuda the next day. The damage was amazing- broken pushrods, piston skirts knocked off, metal in all the bearings, bent valves, damaged piston domes, etc.....

HI Cobra · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 09:02 PM

If you can't find it with a magnet before you start pulling stuff apart you
might try taping some flexible tubing to a powerful shop vac and fish with that - if it sucks it up you are good to go - if not then teardown time
until you do find it - you might get lucky! Good fishing!

ERA Tom · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 09:05 PM

Take a piece of ½” garden hose and attach it someway to a shop vacuum hose. Stick the hose as far down each runner as you can and start it up. I retrieved a carb nut from my Tunnel Wedge this way last year.- Tom

Carnut427 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 10:20 PM

Turn the engine upside down and shake it.

The washer will be in the last place you look.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I honestly wish you luck in retrieving it...

Dan

Excaliber · #7 (**permalink**) 10-22-2006, 10:43 PM

I hate when this happens, and it HAS happened to me. Yup, that darn washer got in the intake and screwed things up. Not to bad, but the top of the piston looked like shrapnel hit it. Obviously I took the head off because it had a FIERCE rattling sound going on.

HSSS427 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-23-2006, 05:11 AM

Thanks all. Going to try a borescope and see if I can see it, then a flexible magnet, and then the vacum trick.

What kind of lure to washers prefer ? ;-)

Wayne Maybury · #9 (**permalink**) 10-23-2006, 07:52 AM

Don't forget that stainless won't stick to a magnet.

If you don't find it, pull the intake off, that should give you a 90% chance of finding it. The only possibility that you don't find it in the intake or in one of the runners would be that it managed to slip by an open intake valve. Unfortunately, that would mean taking off at least one of the heads.

Good luck on your fishing trip and don't forget that you can find some of the good ones in the most unlikely places.

Wayne

Ron61 · #10 (**permalink**) 10-23-2006, 09:07 AM

Scott,

Hope that you get the washer out ok. But as to bait, have you thought about the bubble gum on a long flexible stick thing? I actually got a stainless screw out of one of my valve covers that fell in when I had the oil cap off that way. Of course that 3was nothing compared to trying to fish around down in the runners of an intake. Best of luck.

Ron

HSSS427 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-23-2006, 06:15 PM

I checked out the magnet on the other washers and thankfully they are steel and the magnet on the fishing device seems relatively strong; it would pull the washer from about 1/2" away and stuck pretty tight. So, tossed in a line, but have come up dry in all holes thus far.

Have a borescope arriving tomorrow so will try surgery instead of fishing. Will first look in all the intake runners, and failing that will note which cylinders have open valves and will look through the plug holes on those.

Not sure how good the view will be, so that will be the determining factor as to trusting the bore scope that nothing is in there. I'm already very worried as I've scoured the floor, the car and went through all my spare washer pile, and can't find a 4th washer that matches the other 3. The other 3 are relatively thick with size markings on them, so stand out from the others.

HSSS427 · #12 (**permalink**) 10-24-2006, 02:04 PM

Used my sonar/borescope and found it in the #7 hole-----put a worm on the magnet and it gobbled it up!

With any luck - and avoidance of honey dos - I can install the carb and be up in running shortly!!!!

Rick Parker · #13 (**permalink**) 10-24-2006, 02:22 PM

SUCCESS! In the future be sure to account for all fasteners and washers before removing the carb.

MaSnaka · #14 (**permalink**) 10-24-2006, 04:10 PM

Nice!!! I was following your post with interest. I had a rattle going on in my drivers side side pipe. Usually only heard when I'd shut down the motor. I'd hear this rattle as the rpm's faded off. Thinking oh great now my pipe is comming apart internally, what a pain in the rear this wil be. I pulled the sidepipe off at the collector and turned it up on end and a little 1/4" nut fell out. Hmmmm...I have no idea how it got there or what it could be from. Did it make the trip from the intake? Who knows for sure. Anyway no more rattle.

Carnut427 · #15 (**permalink**) 10-24-2006, 09:51 PM

EXCELLENT! Think about all the time and money you just saved yourself by looking for it so thoroughly.

GLAD to hear good news!

Dan

ROUSHAC · #16 (**permalink**) 10-24-2006, 10:02 PM

Scott,

Glad to hear that you found it!

The thought of something like that happening gives me nightmares. I'm sure that there were a lot of folks looking at this thread initially saying "Wow! I'm sorry for him, but I'm REALLY glad that it's not me".

Good job!!!

Cheers!
Dave

Ron61 · #17 (**permalink**) 10-25-2006, 07:49 AM

Scott,

Congratulations on finding and getting the washer out without having to take everything off. I have a couple of round very strong magnets that I took out of a Magnetron and lay them near anything I am taking off so if I do drop a washer or nut, they grab it. They will pick up a 1/2" bolt from about 10" away, so nothing small gets past them. Then as soon as I get the carb or whatever off, I put a clean rag in the hole. And those magnets did snare two small washers that stuck to a bolt and dropped as I lifted the bolt.

Ron

HSSS427 · #18 (**permalink**) 10-25-2006, 08:01 AM

There's certainly a bit of art, and a lot of luck in this process. The bore scope helped but it is not the easiest thing to use and it took me at least an hour to get a decent look into just 2 of the cylinders. Got lucky in that I found it on the second cylinder I looked at and still wasn't convinced I'd seen enough of the other cylinders to be comfortable I hadn't missed something. My suggestion is that if you get, rent or borrow a borescope, get one with the widest perspective you can get ie closest to 180 degrees. Mine had a 40 degree range and I spent a lot of time just lookinf at intake walls from about a 1/4" away.

Ron61 - your note gave me an idea. How about installing a magnet in the base of the intake so that it grabs anything metal before it goes down the runners? Kind of like the magnets in the bottom of the tranny case. I know it's probably not this simple as it would impact the flow characteristics of the intake if not done properly. Maybe put a bit old sheet magnet on the bottom side of the intake and it would catch stuff fallling in the intake, and perhaps metal debris splashing around in the intake valley!

Ron61 · #19 (**permalink**) 10-25-2006, 08:17 AM

Scott,

Since my intake is aluminum, putting a magnet anywhere and having it stay would be a job. Also, I have a single plane intake which has one huge hole under the carb and the Magnets I use, I just lay off to each side of the front or back when I am taking a bolt out. One of them even saved me from one of the tiny washers on the ignition from going down into the valve cover once as I dropped it while I had the oil cap out and the magnet was about 6" from the opening and it grabbed the washed as it fell. I can guarantee you that if I have an opening anywhere, no matter how small and don't cover it I will manage to drop something that may bounce 10 times and roll a foot and then fall into the opening. Hence the trying to figure a way to prevent this and with the strength of these magnets and their small size, they work great for me.

Ron