Engine Recommendation: 347 or 351W

[qmaster]

I currently have a pretty tame Ford crate 302 putting out about 340hp. I am not sure of which one so I do not know the details of the internals.

I am trying to determine if the best option is to build a new 351W based engine or get my current engine stroked out to 331 or 347 (now that the oil problems seem to have been taken care of).

I would like to be able to reuse as many of my current parts as possible if it means that I can keep the cost down.

My goal is for about 425-450 horsepower while still keeping it very streetable. Also, it is an automatic (AOD) so I would like to avoid having to get it upgraded to handle too much power. Although I will probably need to up the stall speed to 2200 or so.

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated, especially if you know of some places near the Dallas area that can help with the engine build and swap.

Thanks.

Jason

[fordracing65]

Supercharge it.

[Quik289]

I agree. A Kenne Bell supercharger will be your most cost effective solution for your existing engine. If that doesn't do it, then build a killer 351.

[qmaster]

I looked into the supercharger route before, but it ends up costing almost $4K for all of the parts and labor.

For this much money, I can get my current engine stroked to 347, but some new heads, cam, intake, and carburetor. And still keep the stock look under the hood, which would be nice.

Any response?

Thanks.

Jason

[fordracing65]

A 347 is awesome if you want to stay naturally aspirated, 351w I would only do that if you punch it to a 427, that combo is awesome.

[Dwight]

if you go to the 351w you will need new headers.


I stroked mine to 354 ( that's a 347 with .070" more stroke. I got a deal on the Eagle forged kit.) and I'm making 402 rwhp and 416 rwtq.

I can hold my own with my big block buddies.

stroke it
buy your heads and cam from Keith Craft, that's where the hp is.

Dwight

[FIA-ERA]

If it was me and I was to do it all over again, I would go the 302 Windsor based. Don't get me wrong, I love my 351W and it does everything I built it for BUT it doesn't wind up nearly as fast as my 289 or 302. It takes just a little more time than the 302 but then really comes on stronger a little higher. It has 392 HP with 420 Torque (perfect street motor!).That's just me, though. I like how it fills up the engine compartment and it does look meaner. But like others have stated, you will have to replace more than what you'll make up for with just stroking your current block. Here's the one you need: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT . I've seen this one in person and it's just amazing! If I had the money and means to do so... It runs on pump gas and makes just a crap load of power and torque! Can't beat who built it either. But then again, Ernie has rebuilt Dodge Nascar motors with over 810 HP for 1/2 of that ready to go too. Just a thought Regards, Matt

[bobcowan]

From the cost stand point, you're better off sticking with yur current 302 block. That saves you money on things like headers, oil pan, intake manifold, etc.

And when you move up to a physically larger engine, there's lots of little things that come up as you do the swap: throttle linkage, fuel line, etc.

[Mac VABCH]

or go with a 302 based Dart block and get a 363 ci with the big bore block and stroker from Keith Kraft. Add a bit more compression and you will be in the +500Bhp range.

[CobraEd]

Why is this thread posted twice?

.

[jbmatth]

From the sound of things you are wanting to stay under $4k, if that is the case you could swap out the entire top end and make good strides toward your goal. Then if later on you decided to up the displacement you can stroke the 302. My 2 cents.

[GLS-BDR226]

I have the same situation and questions. I have a 302 crate motor (rated at 345) with airgap manifold, 670 street avenger, GT 40 alum x heads, roller rockers, MSD electronics--in a BDR with a T5 and 391 LSD. It pulled 280 RWHP on a dyno. It revs fast and pulls pretty good for a SBF. I think the 391 LSD helps greatly in the seat of your pants experience.

However, i am thinking about upgrading of course. LOL I love the look of Webers, either the 8 stack or even the DCOE side drafts. But that could push $5K for the former. And tuning could be a problem. I am not sure if this would help performance though.

I was also considering 3 2 barrels or dual quads. Again this might be ovrrkill with no increase in performance. The last resort would a new short block but i hate to trash what i currently have--only 4k miles on it. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[YerDugliness]

IMHO, and based on years of experience trying the cool looking stuff, the best bet would be a single 4-V carb. I've tried the dual-quad and tri-power setups, but surprisingly the only ones that seem to work the way I think they should are the early (61-63) Ford 390 tri-power setups. I found the dual-quad setups tricky....progressive linkage helped there (and was "mandatory" on the tri-power setups).

The thought of trying to synchronize 8 webers after trying to sync the 4 carbs on my Honda CB500 motorcycle just dumfounds me.....too much work and WAAAY low on the "per dollar" value considering how little power the webers add. There are plenty of people out there who like the linear power delivery of the webers, but they are picky about cam selection and they take a lot of fettling.

A 4-V and a good intake will deliver all the power you want--unless you want it to turn 7K, your Air-Gap is a good choice! There is a system I really like in which the "carb" is nothing more than an air valve and the fuel is delivered by injectors mounted at the junction of the intake manifold and the heads. The system looks fairly "period correct" to the casual observers, but those who are gear heads will recognize the fuel rails and injectors. Google Mas-Flo and see what you can find.

I keep hearing GREAT things about the 427 version of the 351-W. I hear equally great things about the 331 version of the 302. Issues related to the 347 version of the 302 involve ring placement, clearancing the bottom of the cylinder bores for the counterweights on the crank, and premature cylinder wear. I'm sure there are companies out there that have addressed those issues, but when I increase my 302 it will be to a 331, hoping to wind it high and quick and last long. The 347 won't wind as quickly, but they really have great torque!

If I were to want more displacement than that, I'd really give serious consideration to a stroker 391 CID version of the 351-C (or, even better, a 427 based Windsor built as a "clevor" with good aftermarket heads....OH, YEAH!!). The Cleveland design cylinder heads would also necessitate new headers, of course. Not many on here will like the Cleveland/Clevor option b/c they are considered NOT to be period correct. IMHO they are one of Ford's best looking engines and they have a unique sound about them. They have great low-RPM torque production but are not usually high-RPM engines.

IMHO, again, I think your least costly option for more power is with better heads, more compression and a healthy cam. LOTS of choices with what you have already. I'd save stroking to be a final "step" with your current intake/exhaust/placement/transmission. Keep in mind you'll undoubtedly need to have the carb retuned for the larger displacement.....they can't just slap it back together and expect it to work well.

Want "cool factor"? Go with stack EFI, they look like webers but have that great EFI driveability

Good luck with your choices.....keep us posted, please!!

Cheers from Dugly

[Dwight]

I have changed a lot on my GT 40 motor and still have several things to do, but here is the latest pictures.
I ordered more parts tonight and they should be here before Saturday.
Dwight

[nymathboy]

My vote is for the 351w.

My reasons
1) More cubes make more power when all else is equal
2) A smaller engine has more stress on it to make the same power
3) If you super or turbo a 351w you make big power
4) Thicker block when comparing apples to apples
5) Stroke a 351w to 392 or 408 and again you have huge power

If on a budget you can get a 351w from a yard for around $500. Buy the engine and drive it until you have the money to put in good internals such as cam, heads etc etc. If you can afford it, put the good internals into the engine before you put the engine into your car because it will save you hassle later on.

[BBQCYCLEWERKES]

Depending on which 302 you have there are options. If you have the Ford Racing Boss 302 motor you already have a bullet proof 4 bolt main bottom end. If that is the case, I would stroke it to 331 or 347. You can get an easy 400-425 HP and there would not be much strain on the bottom end. It will wind up quicker and still give you decent bottom end torque. Get your alum heads worked a bit and I think you will not regret this route. I see nice stroker kits for around $1100 with forged components so you should be able to do the build for around your $4000 budget. Like mentioned before, you will then not need to buy new headers and your intake manifold is more then capable of handling the extra thurst for gasoline. Let us know what you decide.