Newbie, I want everyones opinion on SMALL BLOCK selection for a Cobra...

[TheSaint71]

Hey everyone, I am new here. I have been watching your funny posts for months and finally joined!

I am saving my money for a Cobra rkit, and it won't be long till I get it, but I need experienced people's opinons!


I want a light weight Cobra with a llight small block V-8. Will be used for racing and street....

So far Ive really like small strockers like the 331 and 347... I like the nice 302's 306's etc... I've even read bout a man who posted a article on a 607 hp 306! I read the posts and ppl mentioned engines like that "sound nasty" and loud? If I may ask, whats "nasty" mean? Is this engine no good, short life? Ive read all about it, but need your opinions...

I want a car thats really quick, (hence light weight) I would grately appreciate you info... Also there was a man here who has a 331 with like 545 hp or so... sounded very nice... said he between 16-20k into it... Sounds outstanding..



Thanks again Guys,
Jamin


Hope to hear from you soon!!!

[Loadmaster]

No matter what direction you go, there is nothing like driving a cobra. I have a 300hp 302, Tremac 5-speed with 3.73 gears in a 9" rear end. The power to weight ratio is outstanding and will out accelerate most street cars around. This is what you need to do. Decide if you want to build a show car, race car or a car that you can drive around town. Depending on what direction you choose, you should be able to make an informed decision.

[Carroll DeWeese]

If you include 351 in your definition of small block, you can safely get 408 cid with a 351W. Horsepower and torque will be over 500 if properly set up.

Dart Engineering produces a small block with the basic overall dimensions of a 351W that is capable of 480 cid. Back off the cid to something lower (e.g., 427) and you can have very good engine life with lots of hp and torque. They may come out with a aluminum version within a year.

You seem to know about smaller sb engines. What you choose is based upon what you want the engine to do. State your requirements and you should get plenty of advice. What do you want your engine to do? What do you want to do with your engine?

[TheSaint71]

WOW, I just posted this and I already have 2 replies, very kind, I thank you! Thank you alot, Loadmaster and Caroll...Yeah 351 is included also. Yeah 302's have been my real favorite forever.. however I never knew I had this many options before!


According to my callculations 425 horse power will push a 1900lb car to 0-60 in bout 3.6 seconds and the quater mile in high 10's... wow

I want to be super quick, and this car will be the majority for racing, and street driving.....

Also, I've read some posts about engine stress.... something bout a small engine with super horse power can be too stressed? Is this true? It makes sense, but I dont have experience there...

but those are my requirements per se' Also, 've been looking for some type of engine chart online that gives weights of engines... does anyone know of any in exsistance? That would be most facinating!


Thanks guys!
Jamin

[Excaliber]

1900 lbs is extreme light weight. Figure more like on the low end 2200 to 2800 on the high. Not many under or over, but a few.

FFR is typically lighter weight than others, and that is good. Clssic Roadster will be toward the top (thicker body, longer wheel base), but I like the extra size.

Your calculations assume you can put the horse power to the ground and THAT is a problem with a light weight car. I'd focus on handling first, acceleration second.

Ernie

[casaleenie]

Saint,

My engine is a 351Windsor from Southern Automotive...
They claim 410HP.. It is awesome to the point of being a little scary. I've driven a 302ci with just under 300 hp and it was blindingly fast... They are a light little car - a little HP goes a long way..

Excaliber is correct.....

Handling #1

[Ron61]

Saint,

My 351 is stroked to 416 and puts out over 500 horsepower and 510 pound torque. It is way overpowered and if I were doing it again I would most likely stay in the 400-450 range with a 351. When I was having the engine built I was going to have it built out to around 650 horse for racing but decided early on that I am to old for that and called and had them change some things to bring the power down to what it is. I have a friend who has a beautiful Cobra with a mild 302 in it and that thing goes like the wind. He can also go all the way between filling stations. If I stop at a large station I fill up at the first pump and then top off at the last pump in line as I leave. I also run racing gas in mine as this pump gas we have out here is a joke. So unless you are really serious about racing I would suggest a mile built 302 or 351 and you will still have more acceleration that you thought you would.

Ron

[scottj]

Simply stated, engines are basically air pumps. The more air you can pump thru the engine, the more power it will make. The heads determine how much air you can flow through the engine and therefore how much power the engine can make.

Cubic inches dictate how many rpm you have to turn the engine to flow that amount of air.

To make the same power, a 302/331/347 will have to turn alot more rpm than a 408/418/434.

The more rpm you turn the engine the shorter its life, especially valve spring and lifter life.

Also, the higher you turn the engine the more cam duration you need, the earlier you open the exhaust, and the more you will hear the combustion in the headers at idle. That combustion in the headers is what gives it that "pop" or "nasty" sound.
Scott

[NeedAntiVenom]

Saint,

You may find a highly modified motor gets a little balky at low revs too, with a 2400 pound car with lots of rubber you may end up with a real handful on the street. If you can, try one to get a feel for what HP your comfortable with.

Even with a mild motor, a Cobra will put over 3000 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels in first gear, (3:1 first gear ratio, 3:54 differential ratio, ~13" tire radius) and 1000 foot pounds or more in 4th gear. Getting the tires to stick is a challenge - sounds like fun until you poke the loud pedal a little too much in a corner.

I agree with Casaleenie and Excaliber, focus on handling more than HP. HP will get you into trouble, handling will get you out. 400 HP is more than most mortals can handle in a car this light. If you need more power later, its usually easier than improving the handling.

Best of luck in building your Cobra,

Jim

[wilf leek]

I went with a 408 windsor stroker. Good breathing heads (Edel Vic Jnrs) but tamed for the street with a dual-plane intake manifold (Performer RPM) and cam lobe separation (Ford x303).

Result - 400+lbs ft of torque from 2000rpm to 5800rpm, but at the expense of ultimate BHP (about 450 at 5500). It will idle along in traffic without complaint at low rpms, but let it rev and the car moves along very nicely thank you.

If I ever want to change it's nature, I can release those ponies by a cam and intake change, letting it breath better at 4500+rpm. At present I am more than happy with it.

[FrancisRose]

Well if you want power, you can have too much if it is not controlable. A low rear end ratio, including tire diameter, is important. The rear end can give you gear RPM's you can run though with the throttle and still control the car. Most guys think they want to run over 130 mph and end up with a higway rear end that breaks loose with this lite car and they spin out or quit moving due to a heavy foot. Use the R's and get a 5 speed with over drive. Once rolling you will only use three of the five gears so tune them to your engine with the rear end ratio.

[Double Venom]

Welcome to the club Saint. Now make your arrangements to come to the DVSF III! If it was made, if it was thought of, if it's absolutely out rageous that you are looking for, then this is the place to be.

By the way, absolutely stock, 427 rear wheel horsepower (yup 427, isn't that ironic?) 2,783 pounds without my cute, slim and trim body , 128 MPH in the 1/4 at 11.01 with a 1.51, 60 foot time, and without the wheelie bars!

AND it's a small block too! Really! It only has 360 Mopar pistons in it!



DV--Jenny's car will be here Saturday at noon! I'm a total basket case

[TheSaint71]

Double Venom,

Very Impressive... nearly 11 flat! I assume thats ur cobra in the drag pic? Bet you whopped that guy... Thanks for mentioning this DVSF III Someone please tell me, what is this DVSF stufff I see litterally everywhere on this forum!??? Is it a cobra race group? Tell me... Double venom, your in Ohio? I am in oregon, but moving to ohio for a emt pilot job... I'll be living in Cleveland Ohio in 2 months! Where is London Ohio?

BTW I think I decided on a 331 stroker for the cobra, and Im certain I will go with Unique!
Thats one of the heavier cobra's Ive seen, but damnnnn great time! Mopar... cool.. Don't know anything bout Mopars but always heard good things from them.

Francis Rose, may I email you? I can't seem to find your e-mail address, if you read this e-mail me at StPetrach7@aol.com You seem to be knowledgeable about all that gear crap I can never friggin figure out! lol frustrating!

Love the posts, now need to research handling...

Jamin

[DAVID GAGNARD]

DV;

Love your cars and that "small block" V-10,but let's tell the whole story,you are indeed running 360 Mopar pistons,but you forgot to tell them you had 10 and not 8....... ( Well,I've tried to insert them dam little smiley faces here but can't seem to get them to work) That's gotta be a hell of a ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


David

[SSSnake]

331 is the way to go in my opinion. Although, a dart 302 block stroked to about 360 would be a real screamer. We got 415hp at 6200rpm out of a 302 sportsman stroked to 331. It idles around 950. If you wanna go a lot higher, be prepared to spend some big bucks. At over 7000 rpm, it takes some money in parts to keep it together and make it last.

Glenn

[TheSaint71]

SSSnake hey you mean, spend the money for the best parts that will allow the engine to last and hold together? 331's rule....im thinking on gettin a spendy 331 that'll hold at 7200 rpm! what a sexy engine! Sounds like u got damn fine engine yourself... very nice.. ive been meanign to run the set up Iam thinkin on across the board to see what ppl think..

Jamin

[petek]

Let's see if this works... overhead view of the pistons in DV's small block:





(Just tuggin' at you DV.)

[Double Venom]

Dave,

It's still a small block, no? Just a few extra holes in the engine

Saint, London is due west of Columbus by 15 minutes. What is the "Double Venom Spring Fling?" Hmmm, that is a great question.
I'm not sure I can answer that in less than 20 typed pages, but I'll try.

It's family. It's chocolate chip cookies. It's about showing off and not by polishing, waxing and cleaning exhausts tips! It's a picnic, that I call "out of hand!" It's about huge amounts of generosity, caring, helping one another. It's about cruising, showing off, PARTYING, getting on TV, making our cars safer, bringing our family together, giving the public rides they will never forget. It's about fun, getting people that own and love these cars from all over the world together for three short days! (It started out as a four hour get together three years ago.)

IT IS ABOUT JENNY! Jenny is a 4 year old with Cystic Fibrosis. Jenny has strong ties to the cobra community through her father, Dave Smith of FFR fame. The first year of the FLING, the Mrs. and I were thinking and hoping we might get as many as 20 Cobras to show up for our yearly picnic. That 20 soon bloomed to over 50 from all over the country! (My business has been building custom streetrods and Cobras for over 30 years, with a picnic every year and a cruise for all that showed up.)

I had two manufacturers call me on the same day wanting to know how Mrs. DV and I were going to pay for this-out of control picnic? I told them I had no idea! You can't charge your friends to come to a picnic! Well, both manufacturers, all on their own simply sent donations in to help offset our costs. We then had more money than we needed. They didn't want it back and simply told us to save it for next years picnic or pick a charity of our choice. "THE" family then picked Jenny. We, the "Cobra FAMILY" came together in such a fashion as to set the Cobra world on its ear!

The 50 we thought were going to show up ended up being 137! The $1,000 to $1,500 we were hoping to raise came in right at THIRTY-THREE THOUSAND! This was the largest amount of money ever raised for CF by an independent group! But that number was beaten by the next year. By US. The Cobra group last year raised close to Forty-four Thousand dollars!

We officially had TWO HUNDRED and THIRTY-SEVEN Cobras here with people from Canada, Australia, England and almost every state in the union!

Ahhh, what is "The FLING"? I could probably type all night and wouldn't get the answer right. It's simply a special family, it's our Cobra family. A family that does not have an equal.

Anybody want to answer this better than I did?
Saint, I hope you join our Family in London, Ohio this June!

DV... Fling I and II were just practice!

[TheSaint71]

damnnnnn!!!! thats pretty amazing!!! I wouldnt never guess at making and raising that much mulahh!! crap.... as for ppl , i thought 50 was gunna be like 39, 42 or somethng...wow, btw I ddint know that dvsf stood for double venom spring fling... lol! Why thank you, Im sure I will, i want a unique with a 331 baby! )


Jamin
btw as many years as Ive loved the cobra, Ive never even gotten to touch one! cant waitfor a ride! haha