Big Problems

[TIGER 6]

I would appreciate as many opinions on these questions as possible.
This past Tuesday,I had my 8 month old Brock Coupe at Virginia International Raceway for a Tune and Test Day hosted by the Bertil Roos Racing School.The Coupe has approx. 9500 miles and I have had it at 5 previous track days in 2004.The car was new when I purchased it in August '04 and has a Roush 402R engine.
During the warm up lap on Tuesday at VIR,the engine blew a rod through the oil pan. I had checked the oil level before starting off and made sure the car was warmed up.
2 questions.As the engine has a valid warranty from Roush,do I have a valid claim on this warranty? Secondly,although I am not sure as to the extent the engine was damaged,would I be better off in the long run having a new engine installed instead of rebuilding the existing one?
Thanks.

[RICK LAKE]

TIGER6 You should call Old Jack and see what they say. I wouldn't tell them you where roadracing. They may want to see the motor and then deciede if they will honor the warranty. If not pull the engine apart and see what the damage is. Check the heads, block, crank damage, everything. If you are going to continue to road race you had better go to a dry sump oiling system on your car. You checked the oil level but what was the pressure?? You should get an oil pressure low switch and mount it on your dash. It comes on when the pressure drop to a perset number and warns you. All that roadracing and hard G turns is probablity what caused the rod failure. I fill my canton pan an extra 1 1/2 quarts over full when road racing for just this problem. Long sweeper are where the most damage is done. Get yourself and accusump 3 quart also, for peroiling on startup and roadracing. Just remember to turn it on and off. Good luck Rick Lake

[RACER X #99]

First thing is to delete your post and tell the folks at Roush that the engine blew while your were highway cruising at 40 mph.

I am pretty sure that track time voids most engine warrantees.

One more thing NEVER over fill your oil pan you don't want the crankshaft in the oil whipping the oil into foam. You don't need a dry sump for road racing. For professionals yes but for just open tracking an accusump will suffice. Thousand of road racers run without dry sumps and don't have engine failures.

[RICK LAKE]

Tiger6 I checked the oil level with the 1 1/2 extra oil in the pan. I also have a wind age tray and scrapers for my crank and rods. My crank is not in the oil. Any of the week end warriors that autox and roadrace, most just use what racer99 does. It's cheaper. I am sure that he will blow up his motor one day to and put rods out the bottom. Do it right the first time. Drysump 2,500.00$ Motor not breaking priceless. Call the guys at FFR and ask the Smiths about this or Dennis O at SuperPerformance and ask what oiling system is in the coupe that he races every year without breakage. There is a big different between bearing maintainance once a year after the season and motor replacement Good luck Rick L Ps me and racer 99 don't see eye to eye on this oiling thing.

[Bill Wells]

rick lake. dont know why he would call the smiths at ffr, the car in question is a superformance brock coupe, not a ffr coupe. and calling spf would have no impact on the roller, which is what they sold, without engine . calling his spf dealer might have some impact relative to the engine grenading and their interpretation of the warranty eligibility.

however, methinks first thing to do is read the fine print on the warranty piece of paper that must have come with the purchase of the engine from Roush and see how that reads.

car has 9500 miles, probably some of those could be considered spirited driving i am sure. add to that 5 previous track days , which were probably not *****footing around the course in that car with that engine.

yep, i would read my warranty papers , and then re read them for exclusions and other fine print legalese and then call my roush dealer from whom i bought the engine and get their opinion of warranty eligibility/worthiness and / or next steps for repair of their engine. there has to be a lot of that engine that is reusable, and since they arent garden variety crate engines and not cheap to start with, alot of good stuff is most likely reusable.

then, like rick lake and racer x said..it is time to edit your first post and instead of road racing incurred, refer to your breakown on a sunday afternoon cruise at 35 mph and 2000 rpms on a tree lined street enroute to church when the engine just kinda let loose out of the blue for no known reason. LOL> bill

[RICK LAKE]

Bill Wells Bill I was pointing out which oiling system that the weekend hard racers have in there cars. If you check with them BOTH would recommend a dry sump system for there racing. I am cheating at this time with the canton pan and the accusump 3 qt system. On the so called road course in St Lious the long neg camber 180 degree sweep turn you can suck dry the oil pan and the accusump. The oil get forced up in the motor and stays until the turn is completed. Some of the cars blow blue smoke from this turn. Why? Because the oil has filled the top of the heads and the G-force will not let it drain down until after the turn is completed. Oil gets sucked through the valve guides. I am going with a dry sump system with suction lines in the back of the heads, and 2 to the pan. The valley I will leave alone at this time. This system is worth about 15-30 hp when working with a vacuum pump. This is almost the same system that ALL the nascar motors have on them for all tracks. As far as damage to the motor, Go with Roush first and see what they say. Excessive damage may not be covered like Racing. If not, pull apart and go to a good machinist and have it inspected for repair. Then go price a new motor. If it is mine I go new and fix the other for a backup or sale it. My 2 cents. Rick Lake

[RACER X #99]

Tiger,
If Rick Lake spent more time at the race track instead of the car shows he would know that in a lot of racing series dry sumps are not allowed.
It is unfortunate that you had a problem with your engine but rods can let go in the best of engines built by the best builders. Nascar engines which are all dry sump are not immune to oiling troubles.
Once you get your engine repaired make sure you put in a Accusump and cross your fingers every time you hit the track.
Blown engines are part of the price of Open tracking. Of course you could always play it safe and go to car shows and offer advise to the track guys.

[RICK LAKE]

Tiger6 Here's is old cranky with wrong info again. My car has been to 1 car show in St lious when the club there had the show the day before the race. I have been to 2 tracks racing. I would n't race anywhere a dumb rule like NO dry sump system is not allowed. What Genius thought that one up? Your right about nascar motors breaking, but they are running mininium oil pressure when racing. Just enought to float the crank and rods. Playing it safe or being Smart,cranky in your case the tree didn't fall far from the nut. I gald you have deep pockets to repair your car on a regular bases. Tiger6 I don't beat the crap out of my car like others do. My motor has a 6000rpm limiter to not over stress the eagle rods in the bottom and a cast 428 crank. Onan autox course it's about driving and car setup, I have beaten car with more hp than mine. On road course I leave last in group and run 3 laps, take the car in check tire temp and go out for a couple more laps and work on hitting my marks for braking and ampexs of the turns. Smooth is faster than muscling the car around the track, but I only go to shows. It's funny I have 7 dust collectors on the wall in the den with 1st and 2nd place finishes at the Run&Gun in street class big block. Autox and road racing are on them, but I only go to car shows. Rick Lake

[daltondavid]

Send the engine back to the Builder. Warranty or discussion of new engine or rebuild that one is best kept between you and them. as for the Dry sump/no dry sump debate, another topic that is well suited for conversation there as well.

[stockittome]

[quote]Originally posted by RACER X #99


First thing is to delete your post and tell the folks at Roush that the engine blew while your were highway cruising at 40 mph.

I am pretty sure that track time voids most engine warrantees.

Yep. Thats the ticket. LIE to your engine builder. Make him responsible. I get it all the time. Oh, I was just taking the car off the trailer when it flung a rod: ventilating the block, breaking the cam and taking a head off. Get responsible or better yet, get a set of Carrilos or crower rods. Stay away from that $400 chinese junk.



Lyman

[Excaliber]

I hear you Lyman! Race and pay the price if warranty doesn't cover it. End of story.

..rev limiting my new big block to 6000 (paranoid). I was turning close to 7000 maybe that had something to do with my current re-build?

My sympathies to Tiger 6, I know I was sick when my engine let go!

[stockittome]

[quote]Originally posted by Excaliber



..rev limiting my new big block to 6000 (paranoid).

A crankshaft goes thru 100 revolutions in 1 second at 6000 rpm!
Think about it. Multiply that x3 for formula one.

Lyman

[Keithc8]

The warranty does not cover racing at all. This is the catch with these great warrantees everybody thinks they are getting on these engines. It is a warranty by an insurance company that any builder can get. They are the ones who will decide what will be done with your engine. Read the warranty well and all this is explained. These warrantees have a set amount of pay out like 3000.00, it is in the information you got with the engine. I have looked into all of these and have not seen much to them. It seems to give the buyer a warm fuzzy feeling but who is going to have one of these cars and not go race it every now and then. Good luck, Keith Craft

[jdog]

My engine builder (FE Specialties) will give me a 12 month warranty, unless it even see's a race track.
"You race it, you own it"! is the usual policy.
So, like they say: "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time"
I'm sorry for you about your engine problems. These things cost BIG MONEY, I know! But to expect your engine builder to cover it, is asking a little much, don't you think!
There are a lot cheeper things to race, than a Cobra! Ever try 'karting'?

jdog
P.S. You can see my 427fe (money pit), pictures are in my photo gallery. Good luck with your engine.

[RACER X #99]

I really get tired of people who don't any type of track time coming off as experts about what you should and should not do to your car/engine.
Common sense will tell you that no engine builder is gonna guarantee your engine while doing any type of track time.
I don't care if you have a $40,000 engine built by Jack Roush himself, that is no guarantee that the engine will not fail.
If you are afraid of losing a motor or having any type of mechanical problen I suggest you stay away from the ractrack.

If you do want to play on the track and you accept the consequences you can have plenty of fun and you don't need a pro built race engine. There are plenty of guys running stock engines thousands of track miles and they don't have pro qualty rods or crankshafts.

If you can't afford to rebuild your engine when it blows up than stay home.

[djseed]

Tiger 6:

Did you have the Dart block or the Sportsman block?

[Clois Harlan]

Tiger,

I had a rod let go last fall at Texas Motor Speedway in my 428 and I knew when it happened it was something I would have to pay for out of my pockets. I know of a person here in Tulsa that had spent in excess of $60K for his custom built 454 Chevy he used in Truck pulls. Titanium everywhere throughout the engine and in less than a minute (second pull) he dropped a valve and the whole engine was toast. Things happen more often under stress.

Sorry for your mis-fortune, I know how and where it hurts the most.

Clois

[hp/weight]

Originally posted by Keithc8 The warranty does not cover racing at all. This is the catch with these great warrantees everybody thinks they are getting on these engines. It is a warranty by an insurance company that any builder can get. They are the ones who will decide what will be done with your engine. Read the warranty well and all this is explained. These warrantees have a set amount of pay out like 3000.00, it is in the information you got with the engine. I have looked into all of these and have not seen much to them. It seems to give the buyer a warm fuzzy feeling but who is going to have one of these cars and not go race it every now and then. Good luck, Keith Craft

Is THIS what you're what you're trying to say, Keith?

[Blue66]

Originally posted by RACER X #99


I really get tired of people who don't any type of track time coming off as experts about what you should and should not do to your car/engine.
Common sense will tell you that no engine builder is gonna guarantee your engine while doing any type of track time.
I don't care if you have a $40,000 engine built by Jack Roush himself, that is no guarantee that the engine will not fail.
If you are afraid of losing a motor or having any type of mechanical problen I suggest you stay away from the ractrack.

If you do want to play on the track and you accept the consequences you can have plenty of fun and you don't need a pro built race engine. There are plenty of guys running stock engines thousands of track miles and they don't have pro qualty rods or crankshafts.

If you can't afford to rebuild your engine when it blows up than stay home.

You hit the nail on the head . I drag race (don't dare road race) an parts do break !!! Nature of the beast

[Wammy]

Tiger 6: I'm curious, I have the same engine....What is (was) your serial number?

James