AFD alum heads for cleveland

[AusFordParts]

Originally Posted by blykins

I think the advantage of the CHI heads is that the port velocity is so high. Sure, anyone can make 600hp with 340ci and a big cam, but making that much power and having the torque to back it up is a different scenario.

CHI has several dyno charts and magazine articles showing 408's Clevelands and Clevors that make 650hp up top, and are still making 500 lb-ft at 2500 rpm. The 3V port is an awesome middle ground.

I think that's the reason why CHI is the choice for all the Engine Masters Competitions....a broad torque curve is what it takes to win there, and that's what it takes to get a thrill in a street car.

Funny, the Edelbrock heads fell short of the 600hp mark by about 130hp
The AFD 2v heads have seen +740HP@6800 & +600lbs from 5000 to 6100rpm, +500lbs@4100 where the chart begins. As seen on AFD's dyno section on their website
That was with only 393ci Cleveland built for a race 1/4 miles back to back in the real world as uposed to the dyno queens we see in EMC.
The aforementioned AFD 2v heads were the early series heads first produced by AFD. This engine was built by one of Australia's most reputable racer/engine builders & has made many passes in competition.

nuff said.

cheers
Lawrence

[blykins]

I'm very confused, because nowhere in this thread did I ever mention the word Edelbrock.

I'm referring to CHI, from Austrailia, the cylinder head that all the Cleveland and Clevor guys use to win the EMC's with. Dave Storlien, Jon Kaase, AD Performance, etc. They have to pick a head that makes the most power over a complete range, not at a very short peak, like a drag car. It's for that reason why I would pick them over anything else. I agree with you, an EMC engine is very much a dyno queen, but no other Cleveland head will produce that broad of a powerband, and that's what makes a street car feel strong.

600lb-ft is quite impressive, but I've seen CHI dyno sheets/graphs where that is available at a lower peak, and 500lb-ft is available at 2500 rpm. All of that was with a very, very mild solid roller cam, with .050" durations in the lower 240's. For a street car, I don't want a torque peak at 5000-5500, I want it down low where I can take advantage of it.

I realize that you're talking about a 393ci drag motor, and I'm talking about a 408ci engine built to make low/mid range power. However, I've viewed your website many times before and couldn't find any street/strip builds that reflected that kind of torque down low.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'm very confused, because nowhere in this thread did I ever mention the word Edelbrock.

I'm referring to CHI, from Austrailia, the cylinder head that all the Cleveland and Clevor guys use to win the EMC's with. Dave Storlien, Jon Kaase, AD Performance, etc. They have to pick a head that makes the most power over a complete range, not at a very short peak, like a drag car. It's for that reason why I would pick them over anything else. I agree with you, an EMC engine is very much a dyno queen, but no other Cleveland head will produce that broad of a powerband, and that's what makes a street car feel strong.

600lb-ft is quite impressive, but I've seen CHI dyno sheets/graphs where that is available at a lower peak, and 500lb-ft is available at 2500 rpm. All of that was with a very, very mild solid roller cam, with .050" durations in the lower 240's. For a street car, I don't want a torque peak at 5000-5500, I want it down low where I can take advantage of it.

I realize that you're talking about a 393ci drag motor, and I'm talking about a 408ci engine built to make low/mid range power. However, I've viewed your website many times before and couldn't find any street/strip builds that reflected that kind of torque down low.

Speaking of the CHI Kasse heads, here is the latest build from Aus:

440ci, 15.1 comp and VP Q16 fuel.

The numbers say it all......




Oh and i believe this is the AFD car in question, something don't match up ?

http://www.carpoint.com.au/Tig/Minis...ointau&id=8101

[chris393W]

Originally Posted by AusFordParts

Funny, the Edelbrock heads fell short of the 600hp mark by about 130hp
The AFD 2v heads have seen +740HP@6800 & +600lbs from 5000 to 6100rpm, +500lbs@4100 where the chart begins. As seen on AFD's dyno section on their website
That was with only 393ci Cleveland built for a race 1/4 miles back to back in the real world as uposed to the dyno queens we see in EMC.
The aforementioned AFD 2v heads were the early series heads first produced by AFD. This engine was built by one of Australia's most reputable racer/engine builders & has made many passes in competition.

nuff said.

cheers
Lawrence

Interesting reading

Is it just me that noticed the Edelbrock heads were run with a mild hydraulic roller cam and not a monstrous .770 lift 270 .050 solid roller.

Any wonder they were down 130. I think your hand finished AFD heads may have been in for a rude shock if the Edelbrocks were put on the same engine

How about comparing apples with apples instead of trying to make one product look good, against one that was clearly not meant designed to make the same hp level

[blykins]

In his defense, the Edelbrock heads are turds. They are more for a 2V replacement, and instead of 300cfm flow numbers, they're down around 260. Even with a large cam, they still wouldn't make the power.

[Keithc8]

Just to make things clear we can make over 700HP with the Edelbrock heads but why mess with it when there are better heads out there. I have made close to 800HP with the stock cast iron 4V heads and a lot of work.
If you are going to get into this head deal and HP just go ahead and get some Blue Thunder 4.3 heads or some Ford D4 Cup heads and make 1000HP with a big inch small block. How big is ones pocket book and how much power do they want to make.
There are a bunch of heads out there and a lot of them will achieve the same thing in maybe a different way. Are you trying to use a stock intake? Are you trying to use a stock style exhaust? Are doing everything from scratch and money is no option.
You have to remember that the Engine Master deal will only let you use certain heads on certain engines. Some engines came from the factory with better heads. If they made you use a stock cast iron head the 351C would still be the way to go because it along with the BBC have the best head from the factory. Since they let you work on the head anyway that you want you can da all sorts of stuff. We were filling in the ports on the 351 4v heads 20 years ago and filling the floor on the exhaust and opening them up per NHRA Super Stock rules and getting 370cfm intake and 250cfm exhaust almost 20 years ago. The new Blue Thunder and D4 heads we have will go 440cfm intake and 300 cfm exhaust. It is just time and money and most people do not want to spend it. At least we have after market heads now for Fords, when I started we had to work on the cast iron stock stuff.

Good luck, Keith Craft

[chris393W]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

Just to make things clear we can make over 700HP with the Edelbrock heads but why mess with it when there are better heads out there. I have made close to 800HP* with the stock cast iron 4V heads and a lot of work.*If you are going to get into this head deal and HP just go ahead and get some Blue Thunder 4.3 heads or some Ford D4 Cup heads and make 1000HP with a big inch small block. How big is ones pocket book and how much power do they want to make.*There are a bunch of heads out there and a lot of them will achieve the same thing in maybe a different way. Are you trying to use a stock intake? Are you trying to use a stock style exhaust? Are doing everything from scratch and money is no option.*You have to remember that the Engine Master deal will only let you use certain heads on certain engines. Some engines came from the factory with better heads. If they made you use a stock cast iron head the 351C would still be the way to go because it along with the BBC have the best head from the factory. Since they let you work on the head anyway that you want you can da all sorts of stuff. We were filling in the ports on the 351 4v heads 20 years ago and filling the floor on the exhaust and opening them up per NHRA Super Stock rules and getting 370cfm intake and 250cfm exhaust almost 20 years ago. The new Blue Thunder and D4 heads we have will go 440cfm intake and 300 cfm exhaust. It is just time and money and most people do not want to spend it. At least we have after market heads now for Fords, when I started we had to work on the cast iron stock stuff. Good luck, Keith Craft

My point exactly. I bet the Edelbrock heads were run as stock. I bet they had no hand porting, which the AFD heads clearly had, yet they are being used as a comparison.

Even more interesting is the highlighted text below. I got the text below from the link provided in the post above. Its talking about the same alleged 740hp engine Lawrence from Ausford parts was talking about, only this time its 666hp. Funny that.....

No, your eyes are not deceiving you; this outrageous rig is a 1951 Series 1 Land Rover - owned and piloted by Chad Taylor. Mind you, there's not a lot left of the ol' girl. A more apt description might be the outer shell of a '51 Landie draped over a chrome-molly, tube-frame chassis. Nonetheless, with a 666-horse (496kW), 393-cube (6.4-litre) Ford Cleveland V8 under it's nose, this matt-green beast has managed to sprint down the quarter-mile in a whisker over 9.5 seconds, nearing 140mph (225km/h).***

I agree with KeithC8. There are heaps of choices out there and it all depends on a persons budget. The 340 looks impressive until you look further. Ausford parts goes on about how their stuff is affordable. Hell that engine has hand finished heads,* a Wilson modified manifold on it and fuel injection. How is that affordable ? Id hate to think waht the Wilson manifold allone is worth. Is that what it takes to get good results from an affordable cylinder head???

[stangme]

hello to all ... first post...

somewhat off topic at times... and a little ranting ... and a little long..but..

I'll have to say .. its all in what you want... AFD or CHI and what your goal is. I wanted to build something different for when i lift the hood at a show, be able to drive 400 miles round trip with about 500hp/500tq with the wife beside me. I don't plan on drag racing and would love to road race or SCCA one day and maybe do a long distance pro touring trip. basically i want to be able to get in the car and go without thinking about it...
so i ordered a set of AFD 2V heads after beating my head against the wall trying to find a good pair of 2V factory heads and getting them cleaned up and prepped. I read and read and then read some more on the CHI vs AFD. so i went all out and ordered a SCAT forged 408 rotating assembly with SRP forged pistons and scat H beam rods to stuff in my C9 date code 351W block. I had to... gotta give those great flowing heads something to feed! was it cheap no..is it what i wanted yes. and for those wondering....why didn't i go with eagle for my rotating assembly? nobody i talked to would put a stroker kit together for me. eagle reps said nope.... so i searched elsewhere.

why did i buy the AFD heads over CHI? because i didn't want to purchase the intake for the CHI heads. I already had a B&A 351 track boss intake and I wanted to be as close as I could at getting factory accessories and headers to bolt on. I want AC and PS to bolt up. have i bolted up the accessories yet ... nope... i pick up the long block from the machine shop in jan 09. hmmm the CHI heads seem to out flow the AFD heads in published numbers. but, the completed AFD 2V heads can get me into a great flowing set of heads for a bit less than the CHI heads and will work with my 2v intake and have a good chance at hitting my 500/500 goal.. decision made...

its so easy to get caught up in the numbers game and bench race with this head and that ...CHI or AFD... AFR or edelbrock... ported .. or "cleaned up"... etc etc. bottom line in my opinion... until you build it and place it on a engine dyno or chasis dyno .. you don't know what you have. can you ball park the build based on published specs... yep, that's what i did.. how many people have the time, money and resources around them to flow the heads to verify the numbers, flow the intake, port the intake for even flow.. match the intake to the heads.. then stick it on an engine dyno. not many ... i am trying to locate an engine dyno that is operational at the moment and as of yet i have not found a engine dyno within two+ hours in the SE that has an operational dyno. if anybody has some leads.. let me know.

everybody has a budget .. but a budget build... that's defined per individual ... a budget of 2,000 or a budget of 10,000 ... only if you already have parts laying around, have your own machine shop..lots of skills and build it yourself... can you save money and build it "correctly". can you half A$% it and do a junk yard build.. sure.. how long will it last? so many variables... so little time.

In building my combo I had fixed cost on machining, prep and labor.... everything else was defined by what "I" wanted. did i have to purchase a 2100 set of AFD heads. nope... i could bolt on a set of factory 351C 2v heads and have 800 bucks in them (cleaned, ported, valves). did i have to stroke it to 408... nope.. my stock 69 351W crank is still in great shape.. but why put 1200+ dollars into a engine (block prep, heads cleaned, new valves, rods, push rods etc.) and wonder if its going to last on a 400 mile trip (with wife beside you) or stay together when you "put your foot in it". (Freudian slip.. trying to justify being over budget...?) not to mention the 500hp/500tq goal.

its all in what you want.... cant wait till the new AFD intake comes out... hmm maybe ill build a CHI headed motor with the new boss block... then put the AFD heads on it with an edelbrock 302E intake... it never ends... .. .oh yeah im already over my "budget"

take care

[Dingocooke]

Interesting thread, my two pence worth?

Im running a 351C in my car with 2v quench heads and still dreaming of my upgrade engine (another 351C) with better cam heads etc.

Ive emailed both CHI and AFD, and both their numbers look good.

However (isnt there always one of these??) AFD were just so helpful, gave me lots of build info, suggested specs for my application, and were very open to communicate with, and no heavy sales pitch. CHI were friendy but the info was very minimal, and I got the feeling I was being 'sold to' more than advised. CHI seem to offer a head for many engines, whilst AFD are cleveland/clevor only, so the choice is small 351C specialist thats really helpful or bigger commercial company that (appears) less helpful?

Just my take on it and would be interested to hear what people who have bought AFD's or CHI's have found when theyve run their 351C's.

Have fun and heres to a happy 2009!!!

Steve-still dreaming of a better 351C for my car!!