Broken Lifter

onefastmustang · #1 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 02:29 PM

I have a hydraulic roller lifter setup in my windsor block. This morning while pulling the oil pan my wife noticed a piece of a lifter in the pan. It is the very bottom part that wraps around the pin that holds the roller in place. Has anyone ever seen this? Possible causes? I am going to start tearing the top end off probably in a couple of hours.

ERA Chas · #2 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 02:58 PM

You have a very observant wife-keep her.

What make is the lifter? Things to check when torn down are pushrod length and valve spring tension/shimming. Think you just got bad metallurgy possibly on that whole set.

rustyBob · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 03:57 PM

WOW....thats not a good thing to have happen.....hope its not to serious and you can do an east fix.

onefastmustang · #4 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 04:31 PM

Well there was only the tiny little piece in the pan so I assume the rest is still intact. Could be just a bad lifter. They were ford lifters I got from Keith Craft. I will post a picture once I have it out.

Rwillia4 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 05:43 PM

How did you get your wife to pull the oil pan? hopefully she is not parting out your car!! LOL

I'm guessing it was part of the intake valve. It could be cause by to much advance or detonation slamming that valve closed. KC likes to set 35 BTDC (most like around 32ish)

If it was the exhaust side I think you wolud have felt a major problem.

You might want to take a look at the piston head to make sure no damage has been done. Home Depot rents a sewer camera that fits in a spark plug hole. Sounds funny putting sh!t into your delicate combustion chamber but it works and you don't have to take the head, intake, exhaust off.

onefastmustang · #6 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 05:46 PM

My wife pulled the motor apart for me and pulled the lifters. Several of them have cracks on the front of the motor side of the lifter. Here is a picture of the broken one and a cracked one.. Bad set? issue with my motor? Thoughts? I am going to send an email to Keith as well.

tcrist · #7 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 06:08 PM

Darn Mike, If it wasn't for bad luck you would not have any at all.
Glad you found this before it turned into something worse.

Oh yea, Why were you pulling the pan in the first place?

Terry

scottj · #8 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefastmustang

My wife pulled the motor apart for me and pulled the lifters...

I'm having a hard time believing this... This thread is worthless without pictures of this wife...

onefastmustang · #9 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 06:22 PM

Two reasons.. I wanted to put the Milodon gasket and some oil pan studs. When we pulled the pan we noticed that the bolt holes were dimpled so she used a hammer and dolly to flatten them out and noticed the shrapnel sitting in the pan when she was cleaning up.

As far as luck. The COO of my company thinks I have great luck because I keep surviving all of the **** that has been thrown at me over the last 18 months. For those not following along..

1. Wife had ovarian cancer
2. I had a brain tumor (resected and cranioplasty). I have a titanium skull now.
3. My mom died of brain cancer.
4. My sister-in-law suddenly passed.
5. I had a major motorcycle accident, broken vertabrae, titanium in my back.

All of that and other small tramaus in 18 months.. ouch..

Now my biggest fun is medical bills. But not for much longer..

onefastmustang · #10 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottj

I'm having a hard time believing this... This thread is worthless without pictures of this wife...

You want her greasy or clean.. LOL

rustyBob · #11 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 08:23 PM

That had to just be a bad set or a bad design, i have never seen a roller lifter break like that, glad you and the wife found it whan you did or that would have been some major distruction...........OH and i agree with the boss you are lucky to have a wife that will pull your stuff.......pan i ment pan......

onefastmustang · #12 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 08:30 PM

She loves me..

She actually has an interest in my hobbies which I think is very cool.

And for you picture requesters.. Yeah those are DD's under there..

4pipes · #13 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 09:27 PM

Considering that the major load is forcing the roller up into the body, I would guess that the press fit of the shaft into the body was excessive, and as a result left a microscopic crack at the time of assembly. The crack propagated under stress (vertical vibration).

onefastmustang · #14 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Considering that the major load is forcing the roller up into the body, I would guess that the press fit of the shaft into the body was excessive, and as a result left a microscopic crack at the time of assembly. The crack propagated under stress (vertical vibration).

So you are thinking they were just a defective set?

I checked my valve springs and they are the X302 set that Ford states is compatible with roller camshafts so I don't think there is an issue there. I am wondering if the spider is creating an issue. One of the dogbones was a little loose. However the lifter under that dogbone was actually fine. I guess I will wait and see what KC has to say.

PANAVIA · #15 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 11:16 PM

could have been tight rocker geometery at high revs. -- >?

PANAVIA · #16 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefastmustang

She loves me..

She actually has an interest in my hobbies which I think is very cool.

And for you picture requesters.. Yeah those are DD's under there..

I nominate her "Cobra-Club Wife of the Month" ; October 2009 .

--Steve

onefastmustang · #17 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 12:13 PM

So I corresponded with KC and he said he has never seen this happen before. He was concerned that it was either a preload issue or my spring pressure. I have the ford racing X302 valve train kit installed on my heads. I am not sure what the spring pressure for that is nor what it should be. Anyone have that information?

ERA Chas · #18 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefastmustang

So I corresponded with KC and he said he has never seen this happen before. He was concerned that it was either a preload issue or my spring pressure. I have the ford racing X302 valve train kit installed on my heads. I am not sure what the spring pressure for that is nor what it should be. Anyone have that information?

Funny, that's what post #2 said.
Keith will have that spring pressure info.

DAVID GAGNARD · #19 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

I have the ford racing X302 valve train kit installed on my heads. I am not sure what the spring pressure for that is nor what it should be. Anyone have that information

I'm assuming you have the Ford Racing X cam to go with this spring kit????????? I know a number of guys running this cam and similar cams in Mustangs with the factory roller lifters, same as in your pics, and they race them hard and I've never heard of any lifter failures from them.........

Your cam card/cam specs should have the instaled spring height as well as recommend spring pressure.........First thing I would do is find the cam card/cam specs and then find out exactly what the installed spring height is as well as the spring pressure on your heads.........my guess is it is way too much and putting excess pressure on the lifters/cam and valve train........

Your cam/specs determine the spring height needed as well as the spring pressure needed.......

Just my 2 cents....

David

onefastmustang · #20 (**permalink**) 10-05-2009, 03:22 PM

Unless I have gone blind I am not seeing any specs on my cam card about springs. I sent the parts list to KC. I will see what he has to say about them.