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KCM 408 Oil Troubleshooting - Coolant Pressure test next
John,
It is hard to say exactly how much... it is a bunch, I started with a few paper towels to try and "swab" it out and gave up after about 8-10 and it still had a fair amount. I am going to do a coolant system pressure check next. My hope is this is a "gap" in a gasket between at the intake manifold and not a crack in the block :CRY: I was just thinking about this again....so if the Oil pressure is 25+ PSI and the water pressure is 16 PSI if their is a "gap" in a gasket somewhere it should leak from the High pressure to the low pressure... so since I am seeing oil in the water this could indicate I have a gasket problem that is allowing this transfer from High Pressure to low pressure. I have somewhat eliminated the head gasket since the pressures are all between 140 and 155 PSI when I tested this yesterday. Since the motor only has just under the 3k miles...if it has a crack it came this way :( But this would not be under warranty |
Intake Manifold leak
So after the pressure test I have found a leak at the intake manifold on the driver side at the very front of the block. so... now to determine if i can get it into a shop ASAP to replace the gasket... or to do myself **)
I fear is it could still be leaking at the head gasket also, I spend a bunch of time replacing the intake manifold and then determine it still requires the head gasket to be replaced (ug) What fun... have never done a intake manifold replacement... but what better time to learn :cool: |
I hate to ask an obvious question... Have you re-torqued the intake manifold bolts? I have checked and had to do mine 3 times with only 700 miles on the engine (which seems excessive to me). Maybe KCR has some slippery bolts!!!
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With a new engine one needs to retorque all those kind of bolts after every drive. Valve cover,intake ,headers,oil pan etc.The oil in the coolant thing still worries me,as does that low oil pressure.
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I dont see how leaking intake gaskets would get oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil yes. There is no oil pressure in the manifold, only oil splashed from the cam lifters. Am I missing something?
As far as the oil pressure it sounds like you have an electric gauge, maybe pick up a mechanical one to check the pressure. Even if you only hook it up temporary. |
That's what I have been saying ,I am not quite sure how the oil would get in the coolant other than a crack somewhere,or porosity in the block??
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Yea... I am scratching my head... I really hope it is not a crack in the block.
The only thing that makes really sense is for the head gasket to be leaking (or a crack in the block) I am trying to rule out the cracked block since the motor is basically new but with my luck... that is the problem |
retorqued the bolts... leak went away
Figure I had check the torque on the bolts before... did not even think of that. I did a quick check and the leak went away on the intake manifold.
So I am back to the start as compression is good across the cylinders and now the manifold does not seem to be leaking... there is a good chance I have a cracked block :CRY: Seems I am going to need the professionals for this one :JEKYLHYDE |
Pull the intake. If you had Fel-Pro gaskets, which I know KC used at one time, they have had some problems. Thank God you don't have a Big Block and need to change the intake gasket as I had to on mine. I went with Victor Reinz (Sp?) gaskets. They work great.
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Chris,
It is very important that you clean the cooling system and in particular the radiator very well. You cannot have any oil left in the system after you repair the leak. Any oil residue will greatly reduce the cooling capability of the radiator. The oil will act as a insulator as it will coat the passages and as we know oil transfers heat much slower than water. I would take the unit out and flush it with perchloroethylene and then with dilute muriatic acid. (Which is a oxymoron as muriatic acid is dilute Hydrochloric acid after all.) Hope your problem is minor. |
Is Rob still under the 57 chebby? Has anyone from KCR gotten back to you?
Keith might just be lurking after the whole Roush thread. Not to mention the World Products thread! Real tough crowd around here. Did you do a leak down test or just a compression test? Tim |
He has oil in the coolant? The compression was even. Leaking rings are not going to put oil in the coolant....I don't think!
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Tim,
Yea I spoke with Rob at KCMM. I did the compression test and the coolant pressure test. Both seem to indicate there should not be a leak. I did show a leak at the top of the intake manifold but when I tightened up the manifold it went away... But there are not a lot of places (gasket) in a 351W where there is high pressure oil near the coolant... only in the block really (i.e. crack) I did finally do a test of the oil pressure and it read near 60 so it seems I have a bad AutoMeter gauge... My plan is to do a flush and determine if I am still getting oil or if it was a contamination problem, but my luck in cracked block :CRY: More to come |
A cylinder leak down test will also look at valve seat integrity and the head gasket seal at each cylinder. A compression test won't do anything but show you an average compression in each combustion chamber. I'm still not convinced either test would show how oil got into the cooling system.
Tim |
Problem Chris has got is we are talking Small bock vs FE. On the smallblock there are no high pressure oil passages in the heads...so your head gaskets are out...really your only going to get it when oil and water jackets in the block have a leak into them..
you did check the oil to coolant flapper valve right? Make sure thats not stuck :D Just kidding..Chris did you have any oil in the coolant? I saw Rob today and he said he had talked to you a couple of times since last week. I might be tempted to flush the system and refil it fresh then run it for a while and flush it again and see if any oil is in the coolant before I freak but how would it get there in the first place.. |
oil in radiator
I have been out a few days with the family since it is spring break for the kids here. This is the first I seen of this but did talk with Rob about it today. The only thing that I can think of at the moment is a possible crack in an oil galley. It might only open up after the engine has gotten to operation temperature. These things are hard to check for and about the only way would be to get the engine up to about 200 and then drain the oil out of the pan and pressure test the cooling system to see if any water runs out of the block. I do not believe I have seen a 351W block cracked from the oil galley to the water passages. About the time we think we seen it all we see something else.
I would do as suggested and flush the radiator good and then the engine again for a while to see if the oil shows up again. I would assume that the car has been where nothing could have froze over the winter. Let me know what you find out. Thanks, Keith Craft |
Chris, let us know if you need help this weekend to get you Austin-bound.
Your T.I.T. is here to help. |
I know this sounds silly, but is there any way one of your kids could have put the oil in the expansion tank. Kids can do the darndest things.
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I wish... Andrew is only 3... so not likely :D
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I have to ask. Is there an oil cooler that is water/oil?
I have seen oil/air oil coolers set up to put the oil through a heat exchanger in the radiator to heat the oil back up if it is too cold when it comes out of the oil/air cooler. I have also seen oil/water heat exchanger right at the oil filter on the newer Modular engines. Might be worth tracing out all the external oil lines and water lines. |
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