Balancing

MaSnaka · #1 (**permalink**) 04-06-2010, 07:49 PM

There are a few tire shops which can do it while the tire is on the car. Old school machine spins the tire while one end of the car is jacked in the air and the tech puts his hand on the body to feel vibration while guessing and checking with weights. It's an art. Cost is around $30.00/tire but when I had it done the guy wouldn't do the rears. Not really sure why not.

You still need a way to get your tires loose though and I can't speak from experience but the spinners turn to the rear of the car. Passenger side counterclockwise, drivers side clockwise. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Then to install use some antiseize on them so they don't get stuck again.

John

Gunner · #2 (**permalink**) 04-06-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

There are a few tire shops which can do it while the tire is on the car.

I've never thought much of this technique - it's always smacked of a quickie, Sears Auto Repair method. I'm sure the right setup in a skilled operator's hands can turn out acceptable results, but really... all that's gained is the time to pull the wheels off, and there is no way the precision can be a high as with a good spin balancer.

jhv48 · #3 (**permalink**) 04-07-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

I've never thought much of this technique - it's always smacked of a quickie, Sears Auto Repair method. I'm sure the right setup in a skilled operator's hands can turn out acceptable results, but really... all that's gained is the time to pull the wheels off, and there is no way the precision can be a high as with a good spin balancer.

That used to be my thinking as well.

HOWEVER, when my new SPF had a front end vibration that couldn't be balanced out by three different machines, I went the "on the car" method.
It balances all the rotating mass, not just the tire and wheel. In thirty minutes, my front end was as smooth as glass. The only way I'll balance my fronts from now on!

Gunner · #4 (**permalink**) 04-07-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhv48

It balances all the rotating mass, not just the tire and wheel.

I don't doubt it solved your problem and that the process has its place in the big toolbox of car solutions. It's usually boosted for two reasons: It's quicker because the wheels don't have to be demounted (translation: lazy shop wants to shove cars through faster) and it "balances the whole rotating assembly." Well... if your hub and rotor or drum aren't balanced the way a machinist would consider them balanced, you've got other problems and wheel weights aren't likely to be a long-term solution.

The rotating mass that ISN'T tire and wheel is negligible at road rotation speeds. You'd have to have a disc rotor that was visibly misshapen, or a bad hub or bearings, for them to have much effect on road vibration. Few such cases would be curable by tire balancing. That, taken with the lower precision of the technique overall, makes it at best a special case option. Glad it worked for you, but I'd never have a daily driver balanced this way, much less something lightweight and intended to be driven fast.

BTW, the OP said he "left his old wheels at the shop" - I'm not sure any of the comments about frozen spinners or whacking them the wrong way applies. I don't know what he means, to be honest...

Woodz428 · #5 (**permalink**) 04-07-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Glad it worked for you, but I'd never have a daily driver balanced this way, much less something lightweight and intended to be driven fast.
...

That used to be the way to balance tires on motorcycles. That was the step above bubble balancers and at the time there were few spin balancers that could take a bike wheel. The only thing I had concerns about were some of the items you don't seem to feel are an issue. Maybe on a car, but on a bike, bearings( they are predominantly ball and not tapered roller) can create vibration issues. So I was never thrilled with them because I felt that unless you had a new tire installed and could check the bearings, you could be masking a potentially serious problem. That may be one reason that the rears wouldn't be done by the balancer. He knew that all the CVs as well as differential components could trigger a vibration. These used a strobe light though, I'm not sure about the "feeling" the vibrations....probably take a better feel than I've got...and it's pretty good.

Omathisen · #6 (**permalink**) 04-07-2010, 06:20 PM

The spinner center of the Compomotive wheels, five bolts, are held in place by a couple of Allen screws on the sides. Loosening these should allow the spinner unit to be moved out. Except for the first one the shop tried, it did not. They managed to scratch the end as well and bend the plate that covers the lugnuts. This weekend I will try as well.
I have had these wheels for some 13 to 14 years and I happen to like them and kept putting off buying new rims, until I finally have to admit that finding 16 inch tires to fit in the rear seens to be next to impossible (275/50/16 range).
The wheels have been off before (obviously), but I have had no reason to move the spinners before. Now, it sounds like a good idea to loosen them every so often.
So, I have ordered new wheels from Vintage wheels for the sake of finding tires, but would like to keep my old ones as well. The Vintage wheel sales peson was very helpful so I am hopeful that these wheels will will work out nicely.
Right now the car is on jack stands, while we hit +90 degrees in NY today, a 100-year record, according the news. And to make things worse, today I got an invitation in the mail to test drive a new Ferrari (California?) at Monticello (guess they have to "sell" cars too in this economy). Don't know how I got on that list, but I am itching to drive my ERA.

Omathisen · #7 (**permalink**) 04-24-2010, 02:01 PM

I have still not been able to get out the center pieces of my wheels. I am attaching two photos - outside and inside - if someone has a bright idea. The shop managed to get this one lose and scratched. I can turn it both ways but it does not come out. So far I have resisted using much force in case I damage the threads. But I am not even sure the threads hold it in place - or whether the threads are just for looks and to hold wingnut. Any ideas, before I have to find another shop? Thanks.

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