Ring gear play on carrier

sunday86 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-11-2021, 02:50 AM

Hi, as i say in my presentation, i am in the long process of the rebuild of an old DAX Tojeiro which has many parts common to jaguar E-Type. According to my research my dif is a 61-63 E-Type powerlock dif. This dif has a 3.54 ratio and i want a 3.07 ratio (Here in France, sourcing another dif with good ratio or find a "good" jag rebuild shop is not easy at all). As i work in mecanics and have a mecanical workshop at home i decided to do the stuff myself.

My diff was mounted in 3.54 so 3.07 is in the same case / diff carrier height range. I've ordered a Dana44 motive gear ring and pinion knowing that the "minimal" stuff will be shouldered 7/16>3/8 bolts and new input flange (not a concern as new driveshaft to made).

All fits but i note that ring gear has 0.0015" of lateral play on the carrier pilot. Dana 44 carrier ring centering pilot is 5"5625 to 5"5640 (Auburn diff information). My Salisbury carrier pilot diameter was precisely measured to 5"563 with a micrometer so is in range of the Dana 44 spec (see pic in my gallery).

In normal situation the ring is mounted tight on the carrier (which was the case of the old 3.54 ring) so i am wondering if some of you have same experience with Dana 44 gear on a Salisbury powerlock carrier or do you think it's a bad gear ?

Thanks for reading, have a good day.

eschaider · #2 (**permalink**) 11-11-2021, 09:30 AM

It doesn't matter what type rear end you are working with, you do not want anything less than a tight fit between the ring gear and it's carrier. Anything but a tight fit will produce a runout while the rear end is operating and advanced gear tooth wear and noise.

Get the correct carrier for the ring and pinion you are using or get the correct ring and pinion for the carrier you are using. Do not mismatch them. If you do you will not be happy with the result.

Ed

Grubby · #3 (**permalink**) 11-11-2021, 01:38 PM

The Dana ring gear should fit and work on the carrier. As you noted the only change should be the ring bolts, flange and some bearings.

Obviously, something is wrong. Maybe it is the wrong ring and pinion set.

John

sunday86 · #4 (**permalink**) 11-11-2021, 10:59 PM

I have tried to contact Motive gear for ring hole spec with no success.
Another ring manufacturer (Richmond gear) give me the Dana 44 ring hole diameter to be in the 5"563 to 5"564 so i came to the conclusion that, with a pilot spec in the 5"625 to 5"564 (Auburn spec) some carrier / ring pairs have tight fit while other could have a very very little play (remeasured to 0"0012 in my case).
I notice also that old ring has a different manufacturing process ie a different cut process of the teeths and that the centering hole is rectified : it could explain that old process could be more precise to obtain tight fit while new process has more variations.
In my case, if i sligthly oil the parts, the play is no more noticeable at all. I have bolt the ring on the carrier and verified the radial runout which is below Dana specifications so i guess the setup is ok. If i order another ring i guess i could have same "issue" so my goal is to mount ring with a little touch of loctite radially applied on the centering diameters (not on the mounting surface althought i remember to have read that some guys do it !).

Gaz64 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-12-2021, 03:56 PM

That's what the word "tolerance" means.
You have a "low" carrier, and a "high" crownwheel.

In a perfect world, a 1/2 thou, would give a nice transition fit, almost clearance fit.

Your current combo with a smear of 140w oil, nip up the bolts, fit the hemisphere only, measure gear runout, get a happy zero, remove the hemisphere, torque up all the bolts, fit the pinion, check the crownwheel pattern etc.

Gary

eschaider · #6 (**permalink**) 11-12-2021, 04:44 PM

The ring gear in a third member takes a literally unbelievable amount of punishment. The intimate fit with the carrier is a key component of long life and good service throughout that life. The ring gear bolts are exclusively for generating a clamp loading between the ring gear and the carrier. The clamp loading and the registration on the carrier locate and maintain proper positioning of the ring gear.

Loctite, even severe duty variety red loctite, does not even come close to producing the same resistance to movement as the proper fit to the carrier and the proper torque on the ring gear bolts. Even with 10 ½ inch fasteners on a drag setup it is possible to move the ring gear. Strange Engineering produces special purpose 9" Ford ring gears with 20 ½ inch fasteners instead of the usual 10 to prevent ring gear movement.

What you are doing has a high probable likelihood of failure and a low probable likelihood of success. When failure occurs you will do significant damage to more than just the ring gear. What you are contemplating is a false economy. Do the job right. Get a ring gear and carrier that fit together properly. That way, you will only need to make these purchases one time.

Ed

hauss · #7 (**permalink**) 11-16-2021, 08:39 PM

I would also add know how to read your paint when setting up your ring and pinion take your time get a set of dummy bearings because you will be installing and removing your carrier more than once to set the proper sims. Take your time do not try and rush or it will cost you.

MasterAnubis · #8 (**permalink**) 11-17-2021, 10:15 AM

I don't know a lot about the Jag IRS. But here is a resource that may shed light...

https://dazecars.com/dazed/JaguarIRS4.html

-Shawn

hauss · #9 (**permalink**) 11-18-2021, 09:25 AM

what I was trying to get at was the fact that the carrier which holes the ring gear and the pinion which holds the pinion gear have shims so you can adjust the clearances for the gears. The bearings are pressed on so you will damage them when removing them to get to the shims. That"s why you need the dummy bearings so you can remove by hand while setting up your clearances. For me it was a process I rushed it the first time and had to learn the hard way take your time read the paint ! That"s the most important thing it will tell you whats going on with your gears.

joyridin' · #10 (**permalink**) 11-23-2021, 04:55 AM

I have a Salisbury LSD lying in the garage. Let me measure that one and see what it reads. I have a few sets of Jag gears also. I will try to measure them, but I only have calipers for ID and they may not be close enough.

When I rebuilt my Jag rear, I used a Dana 44 carrier with Dana 44 gears. I had no problems.