4spd vs 5spd

[snakebitekit]

I have tried several, no many, paterns and can find no post regarding anything reagarding the pros and cons regarding this discusion.

I may be lame in my search techniques.

I have on order an fia. deciding on an engine and drivetrain.

Questions;

how much difference does the 5 make?
how much difference does it make driving?
has anyone switched one way or the other?
is it worth the cost in resale or does it help?
most of my driving will be in the mountains outside of Phx Az, some on the I17
engine; 302/347, webers(hopefully)
Thanks

Any link, answers or help would be appreciated.

[SPF2245]

IMO, the 4spd is more for the guys looking for the original look/feel of the car. With the proper rear ratio it can be usable on the highway.

5spd, one more gear...which allows for more selection of spacings between gears like a shorter 1st for take off and a taller 5th for low RPM cruising on the highway. I also choose a 5spd to allow for better spacing between gears when I cruise the mountains...I found the 4spd I had in my early 'vette left much to be desired between 3-4th when running around the hills.

[FIA-ERA]

I had battled this myself with my FIA. I have decided on a close ratio toploader box with my Jag 3.54.01 rear end. This was made easier due to the fact that I already had these parts but I also have a wide ratio box if needed. I have a 66 Mustang 2+2 with the wide ratio toploader and a 3.50.01 9" rear. On the interstate hear in Ga./ Atlanta my car turns 3800 to 4200 if you just want to keep up in the fast lanes!! It really frustrates me as the engine only turns up to 6200 rpm or so. It sounds like a pack of Indians chasing me!! I went through too many senarios and went the 4spd rought because of riginality, stronger than a t-5, a Tremic is the way to go but Pricey, and ultimately I won't drive on the interstate much. If I do it will be the short trip to get to more backroads. The shifter location played a part too. The toplaoder with the "falcon" tailshaft ( I think) was correct for my car. The mustang location was too far to the back on the tunnel. To the best of my research the set up I have chosen will have great street responce but sacrificelow end. That's why I might switch to the wide ratio later. The last owner had the same set up with a 3.31.01 and wanted a 3.54.01.. We will see once I get it running. The ERA website has some good references on trans. choices in there cars. Do you have a ERA FIA on order? Thanks, Matt.

[trularin]

There are a number of excellent threads on this.

May I suggest searching for:

TKO600, Gas Milage, OD advantage and MPG.

I hope this helps.

[ENTDOC]

go 5 speed. I have had both and the modern 5 speed is easier to shift ,less sloppy and the 5th gear is great when you need it.

[mdross1]

A lot of us have been through the meat grinder on this one.I rebuilt a top loader used with Hurst comp plus shifter,it was a great setup.The problem was turnpike driving,and running the 460 hard.Solution! was a Tremec TKO and a 3:73 rear gear,making 1st gear an absolute spine crusher,5th gear overdrive made turnpike driving a pleasure.Not that I use the turnpike much,now I don't dread having to jump on it once in a while.

[Yetiman]

My car started out with a T10 super (4 speed) with a 3.54 final. It would practically crawl walls if you could get traction, but wasn't really comfortable above 65 mph for extended trips (like across town).

My current setup is a Doug Nash (Richmond) 5 speed (3.27 first gear, 1:1 fifth gear) and a 3.08 final which is a decent compromise. I would like a slightly lower rear end gear, but it works pretty well.

Now, adding a sixth (overdrive gear) to the box, and maybe a 3.27 final drive would be the bees knees !

[WarrenG]

I've got an ERA FIA with the Tremec TKO 600 5 spd. I'm running a 1965 289 stroked to 331 and the ERA jag rear with 3.54 gears.

Quite a few guys told me that the 5th gear would be useless here in the DC metro area but I'm glad I got it. It does provide a lower noise level in the 60-70 mph range and even with only 390HP and 360ft-lbs I don't have any trouble accelerating for passing in 5th.

I have no idea if it gives better gas mileage, I think I've got a mental blockage in that area since I keep "forgetting" to record my odometer reading when I fill the tank!

I think if I was to do it all over again I'd go with the same tranny, but I'd probably go with the 3.77 gears for a little more punch when I'm in 5th on the beltway. I'd also consider the Richmond 5spd with an appropriate set of rear gears.

[snakebitekit]

To Matt, yes I have my deposit down on an FIA. How is yours coming along?

Thanks to all that responded.

Do you think there would be a price differential by not being "true".

I remember my 67 390 GT mustang and I did not have problems doing 70 or 80 or even being close to the redline. Of course those were stock gears and I think around 3.30 though not sure. Long time ago.

Does the shifter in the 5spd fit in the same location without modifying anything?

Dennis

[Rickd]

Snake. I have an ERA FIA in the works. It is presently at Tony's (one of ERA's painters) for paint, and will be back in 8-10 weeks (he's got a backlog and you need to 'budget' 12 weeks for body work & paint). The Tremec TKO 600 is what Peter recommends. But definitely a 5 speed regardless of whether you go with a Tremec, a Doug Nash, or a GForce T5. I had a Unique FIA with a T-5 and for any track time (running hot laps) or twisty roads, gears 1-4 are your equivalent to the 4 speed, and any highway cruising you do, that OD 5th gear is really great as you will be cruising at 2000 - 2800 RPM (depending on your rear end and highway speed). With my Unique (3:31 rear) 60 mph was 2000 rpm, and 2500 rpm was 75-80 on the turnpike. My ERA FIA will have a 3:54 rear, TKO 600 with .64 OD, and a Keith Craft 331 stroker with AFR 165 heads. Also ordered the FIA with the ERA rear suspension with outboard brakes - nice option, larger rear brakes, better for cooling and maintenance, plus the aluminum housing for this custom rear weighs 50 pounds less than the 'standard' rear. Great car, good motor, and hopefully a reliable transmission = a real nice drive. Good luck! Rickd

[1985 CCX]

I have a toploader and a couple friends have 5-spd. My experience is that the 4spd gives you a feel of an older car thus more a replication of the 60's car. The 5spd gives you the feel of today while still giving you power and MPG. My car has 3.54 rear and with highway driving the rpm's are going strong. Would I want a 5 "no" I want the old feel of the 4. I suggest joining a club near you and try to get a ride in both. It will no doubt be a choice since both work fine when set up correct. My daily runner has a 6spd, wouldn't want that in the snake either.

Best of luck,
Jeff

[vettestr]

I have just installed the tremec 6 speed in my own car and love it!!! The 6th gear is a second overdrive. I was not sure I would be able to use that much gear but on a highway cruise you can slip her into 6th and RPM drops to about 1800 at over 75MPH with a 3:55 rear gear. The engine still pulls the gear with the little hills etc but can always drop into 5th for a quicker pass if needed.
If a 5 speed is good the 6 speed seems to be even better. Life is good..

[Cobrabill]

A lotta folks think that you just drop the 4 and toss in the 5.Not the case.A rear gear that works well for the 4 is MAY NOT be optimal for the 5,so the desired effect isn't there.

Too high(numerically)a rear gear and 1st gear becomes useless.Too low and the engine RPM is actually too low and power & MPG suffers.

With regards to sloppy-ness,a PROPERLY set up Toploader will shift smoother than ANY internal rail transmission.

[rdorman]

While my toploader is a joy... if I was doing a new car, I would put a five speed in it with a modest overdrive and use a shifter ball with the toploader pattern! If I can't remember the correct pattern, I don't deserve to be driving the darn thing

[imagine2frolic]

Maybe it comes down to the use of the car? What will be your driving style? I think if you want originality, and a cruiser. Then it is a toploader with a high ratio rearend, near 3.0.

I had 2.88's in my Tiger with the toploader. Only having 164hp the car was a great cruiser, and fantastic gas milage, about 27mpg. If your pumping some serious hp, don't care about originality, and like to burn rubber. Get the 5speed, and never look back.

[snakebitekit]

Thought there would be more response.
I really don't like major highways and goning from point a to b would be all back roads where possible. As I do with my motorcycle.
Projected engine 347 CI with webers.
dm

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by snakebitekit

Thought there would be more response.
I really don't like major highways and goning from point a to b would be all back roads where possible. As I do with my motorcycle.
Projected engine 347 CI with webers.
dm

I'll build mine with a 5 speed, not because I plan on doing alot of freeway driving, but because there will be times even on back roads where I want to cruise at 65-70 w/o buzzing 4k rpm. With the right shifter handle who'll know anyway? BTW, I use the 5th gear on my Buell every day and many times wish I had a 6th!

Steve

[SuperHart]

My Cobra began life with a wide ratio top loader and a 3.50 9" rear gear behind a 351W. Because I built the car as a cruiser and not as a race car I didn't like turning nearly 3000 RPM at 65 mph on the interstate. Fortunately, when the car was built I had modified the top loader bell housing to use a late Mustang cable clutch setup. Last year I swapped out the top loader for a super duty T-5 and matching late Mustang bell housing and flywheel. The hole in the tunnel for the shifter had to be slightly relocated and the rear trans cross member had to be modified. Also the drive shaft needed to be shortened a tad. I'm very happy with the results; smoother shifting and turning 1750 RPM in 5th at 65 MPH. Unless you are planning mega horsepower and a race machine, a well built world class T-5 will hold up nicely and perform well.

[CHI-TOWN TOM]

I have a TKO 600 behind my stroker Windsdor. I had ordered a .82 5th gear but the .64 was installed by error. I am glad that it was, and I find 1st through 4th nicely spaced for the 3.46 rear end ratio in my car. I use 4th mostly cruising and up to about 55 mph then shift into 5th on the highway. I do not race, so I am very happy with the .64 final. Go for the 5 speed regardless, you will not be sorry that you did!

[jams]

Love my 5 speed and would not switch. As someone already mentioned, I would to change my rear gears to make better use of all 5 speeds.