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12-11-2003, 01:02 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
Legislative Alert! NJ Clean Car Bill
Call your Assemblyman
NJ Clean Car Bill Sparks Controversy
Bill would require New Jersey car dealers to sell cleaner vehicles.
Source: NJ.Com
[Jun 20, 2003]
By PETER HALL
The Express-Times
A bill that environmentalists say would help clean New Jersey's air by requiring car dealers to sell cleaner vehicles is stalled in the Legislature.
Opponents call the legislation a "feel good" bill without any real benefits to the environment. They also say it could have a chilling effect on New Jersey's economy by reducing car sales and leaving dealers with stock they can't move.
Environmentalists say putting more cars on the road that rely on clean fuels or burn less gasoline is a vital step to reducing air pollution in a state that has the worst air quality in the nation. The bill would also prod automakers to make more practical low emissions vehicles.
The bill would require the New Jersey departments of transportation and environmental protection to adopt California's low emission vehicles regulations. Under those standards, certain percentages of the cars sold must be electric, gasoline-electric hybrids or use alternative fuels such as natural gas.
The requirements are tougher than the federal EPA's next-generation auto emissions standards. New York has already adopted California's auto emissions standards and Massachusetts lawmakers are also considering them.
The bill failed to pass the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee Thursday with a 6-6 vote, said state Sen. Leonard Lance who is a member of the committee. The bill was also held Thursday by the Assembly Budget and Appropriations Committee for a vote next week.
Lance said he believes the legislation has strong support in the Senate and will pass easily when it gets out of the committee. He blamed Democratic senators for bowing to pressure from auto industry lobbyists.
He said the auto industry's resistance to innovation is not unusual and, historically is not insurmountable.
"It was thought initially that the American public wouldn't buy vehicles that had seatbelts," Lance said. "Of course now we mandate seatbelts. Seatbelts have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Dirty air kills people as well."
The New Jersey Public Interest Research Group has supported the bill by compiling statistics on air pollution in New Jersey. According to NJPIRG's reports, about 88 percent of the toxic chemicals in New Jersey's air come from cars and trucks.
In Warren County, levels of airborne toxic chemicals such as benzene and styrene produced by vehicle emissions are 890 times greater than the levels deemed acceptable by the EPA. In Hunterdon, those levels are about 1,000 times greater than the federal standards, NJPIRG reports.
Vehicle emissions also contribute to the formation of ozone, a principle component of smog. The ozone monitoring station Flemington recorded 12 days when ozone levels exceeded the federal health standard.
Warren County, which does not have an ozone monitoring station, likely had between 19 and 27 days when the ozone level exceeded standards based on measurements taken in surrounding counties, NJPIRG says.
Those levels of pollution have a devastating effect on children, the elderly and other people susceptible to respiratory ailments, NJPIRG says.
But the impact of the California emissions standards on New Jersey air pollution would be negligible, said Assemblywoman Connie Myers, R-Hunterdon/Warren.
"If you look at the data for the EPA standards and the data for the California standards, there's just not much difference," she said.
Myers said the potential for harm to New Jersey's economy outweighs what little benefit there would be. She voted against the bill when it came before the Assembly environment committee in March.
"No one could answer me on what will happen to these cars if no one can sell them," she said.
The main problem with requiring car dealers to sell more zero emissions cars is that there is no demand for them, said Jim Appleton, president of New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers.
"The zero emission vehicle that is available today is a glorified golf cart. I don't envision that vehicle being driven at exit 14 of the NJ Turnpike with 80,000 pound tractor-trailers six feet from the bumper," Appleton said.
The California emissions standards would require two percent, of all cars sold each year -- about 10,000 in New Jersey -- to be zero emissions vehicles by 2008.
"Unless there is some real marketplace incentive to get those vehicles off the lot, the air doesn't get any cleaner," Appleton said.
Other zero emissions vehicles like compressed natural gas and hydrogen fuel cell-powered cars aren't viable because the infrastructure necessary to fuel them doesn't exist, he said.
Hybrid vehicles, which pair a small gasoline engine with electric motors to dramatically boost fuel economy appear to be the way of the future, he said.
Demand for hybrid vehicles marketed by Honda and Toyota already outstrips the supply. DaimlerChrysler and Toyota have plans to introduce hybrid sport utility vehicles soon, but automakers need to do more to meet the demand, Appleton said.
That would be using the power of the marketplace to clean up the environment, he said.
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
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12-11-2003, 01:26 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 1999
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,888
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Not Ranked
Roscoe,
Those damned Democrats again, first they want to take guns away from wackos and now they want to make us drive cars that pollute less. What is the world coming to?
They'll have to pry my cold dead hands off my steering wheel before I give up my Cobra.
RD
__________________
SAAC member and supporter
Club Cranky charter member
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12-11-2003, 01:30 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,618
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Not Ranked
Roscoe,
I wondered where Davis went and what Flores was going to do. Now I think I know. New Jersy can't possibly have the dirtiest air in the nation because Flores said Calif. has it. Also after all the horse sh-- here about the so called electric zero emisision cars and Davis wasting millions on the publicity, he told the car companies to stop testing them as Caif. doesn't want them. Also what are they going to do about the Smokey Moutains. They emit more pollution than all the vehicles. Every idiot governor looks at what these fools out here have done and tries to copy them. Why not copy the recall as well. I fail to see how the seatbelt comparison has any validity in this case. Sounds like some more of Flore's made up statistics. Like the biggest killer in his district was vehicle emissons. But when asked for data to back it up, he got in his SUV which is expmpt from emission standards of course and drove off into limbo until the current storm passes by. Funny how he and Davis were the best of buddies and then when Davis went down Flores didn't know him.
Ron
Last edited by Ron61; 12-11-2003 at 01:55 PM..
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12-11-2003, 01:46 PM
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CC Member/Contributor
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Greenville,
SC
Cobra Make, Engine: 70 Shelby convertible, ERA-289 FIA, ERA 289 roadster hybrid, mystery Ford powered 2dr convertible
Posts: 12,775
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Not Ranked
Welcome to NJ, NOW GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
First time Cobra buyers-READ THIS
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12-11-2003, 02:13 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
Bill,
You got it wrong. Welcome to NJ, NOW GIMME YOUR WALLET!
Roscoe
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
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12-11-2003, 02:40 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flanders,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters 351 Windsor 405 HP
Posts: 1,043
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Not Ranked
Have they ever considered the cars that come through our state every day? Will PA and NY cars have the same restrictions? Let's face it NJ is a corridor state,I doubt stricter laws would help and the economic loss would be bad for all of us.
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12-11-2003, 03:08 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
Art,
Your missing the point. They are not concerned with our wellbeing....they want more power over us. They take away our Liberties one by one.....a little at a time......like slicing a salami. You don't notice it until it's too late.
Roscoe
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
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12-11-2003, 04:31 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: God's country,
ME
Cobra Make, Engine: Original ERA 427sc, Powered by Gessford
Posts: 2,678
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by Roscoe
Your missing the point. They are not concerned with our wellbeing....they want more power over us. They take away our Liberties one by one.....a little at a time......like slicing a salami. You don't notice it until it's too late.
Roscoe [/b]
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To wit, we just lost some of our First Amendment Rights yesterday.
__________________
Replica is not a dirty word.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning."
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12-11-2003, 07:47 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mechanicsville!,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique 427SC/331/5 forward
Posts: 922
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Not Ranked
got to believe Scalia had a stiff drink after that one.... 
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12-11-2003, 08:07 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 97
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Not Ranked
Has anyone driven behind a NJ Transit bus lately? Are these guys exempt? I have choked on the air coming from behind one of these "clean air equipped vehicles". Chaplin is right. One by one...the liberties.
I think the Boston Tea party was about raising taxes from 1% to 2%. And I heard on the radio this am that McGreedy wants to do away with Parkway and/or Turnpike tolls and increase gas prices by 15cents. As in CT, people drive to the next state for fuel. Its worth the cost of the gas.
Some years ago, Bob Grant was verbal about the proposed raise in the Parkway toll from 25 to 35cents. At that time, the Parkway had a surplus of cash on hand THE INTEREST of which could maintain every NJ state road for a year. It's not only liberties they want. Like Roscoe says: they want your wallet too.
Write or call your representatives.
__________________
Ziggy
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12-12-2003, 06:51 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,618
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Not Ranked
NEW JERSEY,
Welcome to the wondeful world that the republic of California is setting the standards for. Soon you will understand the negative postings concerning this state. But wait, by then your news media will be state controled. I think I heard sawing sounds as the state of Nevada is cutting their border with Calif. in the hope it will break off and sink into the ocen.
Ron 
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12-12-2003, 11:22 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Allentown,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 289 FIA #2086, 302/320 HP, Dart heads, hydraulic
Posts: 383
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by Art Burtt
Have they ever considered the cars that come through our state every day? Will PA and NY cars have the same restrictions? Let's face it NJ is a corridor state,I doubt stricter laws would help and the economic loss would be bad for all of us.
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Art,
PA went through a long litigation with the EPA over emissions. The EPA was demanding that many PA counties adopt more stringent controls because of pollution levels. A CMU strudy showed that 80 percent of the PA pollution was from adjacent states. You need only drive by the refineries around Phila and NJ to see what the source is.
Many PA counties are being forced to do emissions inspections again - even though very few cars ever fail. They have exempted specially constructed vehicles and street rods.
I'm tired of having fingers pointed at the wrong people. They should be after the refineries and coal fired electric plants, not you and me. They only do it because we are easy targets.
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