California Is Dying

[Ron61]

Just thought that some of you may find this interesting seeing as how some other states are starting to look at it too.

http://www.vdare.com/collins/090606_immigration.htm

Ron

[stuartb]

That was a very interesting article that I agree with. We have a similar problem here in Colorado where I live. The schools saw a great influx of hispanic children that couldn't read or write english and had to create a special program for them that takes useful resources away from others.

[Dan40]

I am not an 'icy cold hearted conservative.' I can understand the liberals concern, [real concern, not WE WANT YOUR VOTE, concern] about the illegals already here. Yes they are an enormous burden on all OUR systems and there are NO real painless solutions.

What I do not understand, with ALL knowing of the immigration problem, is WHY we do not absolutely SEAL our borders. HOLD the problems at their present level. Why let it become worse each day by dozens, hundreds, even thousands?

[cobra de capell]

The problem is that liberals want both - they want to make illegals citizens and continue to allow more illegals to come into this country. They primarily vote liberal.

[HI Cobra]

Hawaii doesn't have much of a problem with illegal aliens (too far to swim)
but the government employs close to 10% of the work force and doesn't want
to cut back like private businesses have been forced to do. Their solution?
Let's raise taxes again. We are already the highest tax state going and need
to raise the bar for others. Forget trying to reduce spending or down sizing
by attrition as a minimum, too many cronies for that option. Tourism is way
down - let's raise the tourist taxes, as in hotels, car rentals, you name it.
These buggahs stay so smart, you know!

[Bill Bess]

When the Canary is dead, ....Hopefully, some very strong and principled Americans will step-up and clean the crap out of the bird cage.

Unfortunately, the folks should have kept the cage orderly, fair and clean along the way to protect the Canary from itself.

Bill

[Paul F]

California no está muriendo. Crece un diario más fuerte con las familias cada vez más hispánicas. Haga tan New México, Arizona, y Tejas.

[Wes Tausend]

...

Originally Posted by Ron61

Just thought that some of you may find this interesting seeing as how some other states are starting to look at it too.

http://www.vdare.com/collins/090606_immigration.htm

Ron

Ron,

I don't know what the answer is ...but in trying to look for a different perspective, for an experiment, why think of Mexico as a different country?

As an example, imagine Mexico as a different state, full of indigent citizens that have their own culture and language. These so called citizens could freely move across state lines (no longer borders) and steal jobs away from native Californians ...which they are doing anyway. This actually happened during the Great Depression of '30's. The folks were called (often contemptuously) Okies.

Was it good for California in the long run??

Other than the same threat of population overload and initial drain on services obtained without previous contribution, what is the difference here?

Part of the difference would be, we can all go to a poorer American state and take advantage of wealth imported from "home". In the past, folks did come from California, where they sold their $450,000 home, and bought a similar home in, say, North Dakota for $150,000. The California real estate value has recently dropped, but is probably still greater than many midwest states. California natives and all can make a move to Mexico also, but we are subject to non-U.S. laws, are second rate non-citizens and have far less reliable socialistic security (public funded police).

Perhaps the solution is to fully convert Mexico to a U.S. state and be done with it. Border patrol can disband and members can obtain new work as state police, moving enforcement to the center. If it works in Iraq, it should work there.

And why quit with Mexico?

Wes

...

[FWB]

yes, yes....a hostile takeover of canada......

[Ron61]

Wes,

Mexico is not a state and is a different country as is all of the others where the immigrants pour into the U.S from. As for the Okie comparison, that is way off. For one thing they were looking for work, not free handouts and were treated like dirt. They also spoke English and never demanded the country change it's language and customs to theirs. Go into any of the few clinics left here now and all you will find is illegals getting treated while any citizen sits there all day and is ignored. Everything must have a label on it that is in at least 4 languages.
The other thing is that this country is only so big and only has so many people to pay taxes to care for these free loaders. Our economy is as bad or worse than any other in the world and you think we should just keep taking care of these people? If they want to go through the process to become citizens, which used to require they learn our language, then I have no objection.If they can have free drivers licenses and citizens can't then why do you wonder why people are getting tired of this crap?

Ron

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Wes,

Mexico is not a state and is a different country as is all of the others where the immigrants pour into the U.S from. As for the Okie comparison, that is way off. For one thing they were looking for work, not free handouts and were treated like dirt. They also spoke English and never demanded the country change it's language and customs to theirs. Go into any of the few clinics left here now and all you will find is illegals getting treated while any citizen sits there all day and is ignored. Everything must have a label on it that is in at least 4 languages.
The other thing is that this country is only so big and only has so many people to pay taxes to care for these free loaders. Our economy is as bad or worse than any other in the world and you think we should just keep taking care of these people? If they want to go through the process to become citizens, which used to require they learn our language, then I have no objection.If they can have free drivers licenses and citizens can't then why do you wonder why people are getting tired of this crap?

Ron

I apologise if I'm thinking too far out of the box here, again, but most of the time that is all I have to offer the Lounge; a different angle. I admit, I don't have the answers either. Words fail me, I don't always say it very good, and my sense of humor sometimes sucks.

I know, "Mexico is not a state and is a different country as is all of the others where the immigrants pour into the U.S from...", but I kind of ponder why all of us, including me, look at the two invisible boundary lines, in the dirt, as entirely different.

I know both major political parties pander to the potential votes and I was already shocked after the first Reagan amnesty blew smoke in the face of the immigration law.
Would Reagan do it today? My guess is that politics is politics.

Like you, I am particularily irritated by those that would come here, even from other states, looking for handouts and accommodation, rather than work like most Okies. A few years ago, we used to have several hobo's bumming a ride on the trains to get to Minnesota. At the end of every month, they would collect a check.
It only stopped when the both the RR and us guys clamped down after the Mexican drifter known as the “Railroad Killer” made headlines. Hardly anybody hops a train anymore since. We turn them in, the end of an era.

The other day, on a Friday, we went out for supper with another couple and there was a new drug store being built across the street. I had never seen anyone working on it, yet it was progressing. When we came out, I saw why. It appeared there were all Mexican workers, probably illegal, doing the work late in the evening. I suppose they worked late and into the week-end. By Monday morning they would not be there for immigration to find.

They took work away from local citizens, no doubt. Yet they were working and working hard. I hold less against them than the sleazeball that probably pocketed a huge savings in labor cost.

In the end, was it good for the community? I don't know. I only know how I feel.

Again, I apologise.

Wes

...

[Ronbo]

Depends on what the "sleezeball" got paid to put the building up.

Low bid usually gets it and with the cost of building materials plus permitting, zoning issues, $300/hr electricians and HVAC companies raping you...

Not to mention what a yard of concrete now costs... or that piece of commercial zoned property it's sitting on.

But don't think you won't get a cut, the lucky business that moves in that building will pay extra property taxes, more for utilities and provide jobs long after the Mexicans have moved on to building another building. Also the business that moves in there will have to file I-9's, so no illegals can work there. (unlike subcontractors)

[Ron61]

Wes,

You have nothing to apologize for. You stated a valid opinion and I responded based on my knowledge of what is happening out here. But Pelosi wants to make it illegal to deport the illegals so that kind of rationale I don't pretend to understand. I have nothing at all against immigrants, I just think they should have to learn our language and customs instead of ruining the country trying to change it to fit all of their dam customs and languages. If you went to Mexico or some other country legally, they would not change their language to accommodate you and they sure wouldn't put you ahead of their natural citizens for anything. If you went illegally like they pour in here, they would throw you in prison.

Ron

[bomelia]

Hopefully, the Governator singed a DNR.

Mike

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Wes,

You have nothing to apologize for. You stated a valid opinion and I responded...... .......and they sure wouldn't put you ahead of their natural citizens for anything. If you went illegally like they pour in here, they would throw you in prison.

Ron

Ok, Ron. I think I wholeheartedly agree with you on the illegals.

It did belatedly dawn on me that maybe your family, or others reading this forum, had migrated to California from the midwest during the last great depression and I had off-handedly grouped you with illegal types that are despised.
A gaff like that deserves the extra groveling I threw in there.

God, what a long round trip this time, about 40+ some hours. Now for some time off. It's beautiful here, sunny, 71° at noon. I'll be loading the camper and dirt bikes and off to the boonies for the week-end.

Wes

...

[Ron61]

Wes,

No my family never gravitated here during the depression. My Father was a construction foreman for M. & K. construction and I spent my whole life moving from state to state and one end of California to the other. I only know of one living relative that I have and he lives in Arkansas and is the one that I sold my Cobra to. We were very fortunate that my Father made good money and during school breaks he would get me on the dam or tunnel jobs they were doing which was a fortune for me back then. We were never wealthy but were comfortable and I had a very good life. Then when I got out of college and went to work for the telephone company and they decided I would be better working for Bell Labs, I spent my working life traveling all over the country and living in motels. I know about those long hours as they had records of where I had worked for over 60 straight hours several times when we had problems in several different computers at the same time. That was what led to my eventual breakdown and near death. So you don't owe me any type of apology or anything at all like that. I don't even remember some of the schools that I went to and I get class reunion notices from 4 different high schools. Three here in California and one from Arkansas as I went to school there for a short time during my senior year while Dad was on a Dam job back there.

Actually I guess my family would be considered as having migrated from Germany to West Virginia and then all over. At least my early relatives the best I have been able to trace, we came from near Cologne, Germany originally.

Ron

[cobra bill]

Its ridiculous to say this is the fault of liberals, there are laws in place, and corporate farms have been thumbing there nose at the laws for too long, Reagan sided with the farmers and gave amnesty to the ones that were here, this in my opinion opened the flood gates to what is going on today, I as a liberal am willing to pay for the ones that are here to be in school, I do though disagree with English as a second language, if they fall behind because they can't read, or speak English, let them fall behind, it would happen to anyone else that can't read. I also think that we should care for their health issues too, better to take care of their sick then to allow a pandemic. The only answer is to close the border, and enforce the laws!

[427sharpe]

If you really want a harsh 'right wing' view, let me put my wife on the keyboard! She was born in Mexico, entered legally () and went thru the incredibly complex maze of bs the gummint put up. Hung in there, did the right (legal) thing and worked her tail off teaching herself english, and putting herself thru college (no grants). Now works for an internet accounting company, and has a MS in accounting and and a CPA license. She goes crazy as a crap house rat when she hears 'amnesty' or sees mandatory E2L classes being paid for in local budget. She's further right than...ME!
At least on this .
She says...1: Enter legally or GET OUT...no exceptions, & no 'anchor babies'.
2. NO English as a 2nd language! Learn english or leave. Because if they don't learn it in school, they never will and will be welfare cases forever. She call the E2L craze 'passive aggressive racism'.
3. No budgets for illegals; no matter where they come from
I s'pose that means all you Canadian drifters better watch out, too!

[bomelia]

I say, we give every Liberal one illegal allien to take care of.

Mike

[427sharpe]

What ever became of the N California separatist movement that wanted to cut the state into 2 distinct parts so the N could keep some of their $ at home?