427 Side-oiler - approx. horsepower?

[undy]

Originally Posted by fonti

I am looking at a Cobra with a 427 Side-oiler. Has the following parts:
ford 427 steel crank, all ford parts, ford solid lifter cam, ford pistons, Le Mans rods, Le mans dist, Le Mans carburator, ford side
winder aluminum intake, with edelbrock aluminum heads , 10.25 compression

About how many Horses are we talking here? Thank you! Peter

Originally Posted by Gunner

I don't think so. Not at stock displacement and with original cam, heads (more or less) and only a slightly improved intake.

Gunner, you changed the OP's wording from "Ford solid lifter cam" and substituted your own assumption, "original cam". They're not necessarily one and the same. Let's see, if I recall ... Ford had several "hot" solid lifter FE cams that was available across the parts counter of your local Ford dealerships. In fact, I think they were Shelby sourced cams that were sold by Ford with Ford part numbers. One of those cams could qualify as the OP's "Ford solid lifter cam". Depending on the profile it would render more than stock, hence the 500 +/-.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Gunner, you changed the OP's wording from "Ford solid lifter cam" and substituted your own assumption, "original cam". They're not necessarily one and the same. Let's see, if I recall ... Ford had several "hot" solid lifter FE cams that was available across the parts counter of your local Ford dealerships. In fact, I think they were Shelby sourced cams that were sold by Ford with Ford part numbers. One of those cams could qualify as the OP's "Ford solid lifter cam". Depending on the profile it would render more than stock, hence the 500 +/-.

Hopefully it doesn't have anything more potent than the over-the-counter "K" cam (which is what I have). That's about as far as you want to go with a Ford solid lifter cam and still enjoy it on the street. The next step up to that cam was the "B" cam, which kept the same lobes, but brought the separation angle in closer together. He won't like that. The last step up from that was the "D" cam. He doesn't have it; nor would he want it. I really, really like my old school "K" cam, but cams have come a long way in 40 years. A word of caution though when you're surfing the 'net on FE cams. There is more wrong information on the specs than there is right. There are typos that get replicated down the line. Durations are confused from seat-to-seat to other lifts, etc. Some specs include the lash, others forget it. Some cam specs are based on 1.73, others on 1.76, and so on. But the real truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter if he has 485 horsepower or 425 horsepower -- he won't be able to tell the difference excpept on a dyno.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Hopefully it doesn't have anything more potent than the over-the-counter "K" cam (which is what I have). That's about as far as you want to go with a Ford solid lifter cam and still enjoy it on the street. The next step up to that cam was the "B" cam, which kept the same lobes, but brought the separation angle in closer together. He won't like that.

I have a "B" cam, .526 lift and I find it fine to drive on the street, although I wouldn't want to drive it all day long in traffic (but who would do that anyway).

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I have a "B" cam, .526 lift and I find it fine to drive on the street, although I wouldn't want to drive it all day long in traffic (but who would do that anyway).

That's right, you do have the "B" cam. In fact, your engine build is one of the most period accurate builds that I'm familiar with -- Doug, if you happen to have a dyno sheet, that would put this thread to rest.

[patrickt]

BTW, when I mentioned the "D" cam, I meant the C8AZ-6250-D cam, not the mild mannered C3AZ-6250-D cam (someone sent me an email). Only Ford would differentiate a lion from a lamb by using an "8" instead of a "3" in the middle of a long string of otherwise identical letters and numbers.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's right, you do have the "B" cam. In fact, your engine build is one of the most period accurate builds that I'm familiar with -- Doug, if you happen to have a dyno sheet, that would put this thread to rest.

I don't have a dyno sheet, but will post when I get it dynoed (chassis dyno obviously) probably this spring. If it matters, my builder (Dwight Powell), who has been building these engines since 1968, said it would make about 500hp. He has been building 427/428 engines for long enough that I wouldn't doubt him, but there are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this forum that will have different opinions.

For comparison purposes, I have an NOS 427 SO block and steel crank (standard bore and stroke), NOS medium riser heads (not ported), NOS LeMans rods and TRW pistons (11:1), "B" cam, blue thunder intake, Holley 750.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I have an NOS 427 SO block and steel crank (standard bore and stroke), NOS medium riser heads (not ported), NOS LeMans rods and TRW pistons (11:1), "B" cam, blue thunder intake, Holley 750.

I'm looking forward to the dyno results.

Of course, I look forward to finding an NOS SO block in a flea market, too...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I'm looking forward to the dyno results.

Of course, I look forward to finding an NOS SO block in a flea market, too...

I think Doug's engine dyno numbers will give an honest representation of what an unmolested/unmodified SO block really made. Granted his has the bigger "B" cam, and over on the SAAC site there's a chart that says Shelby tended to use the "K" cam, but I don't know if all that's true or not. Ron would know, though -- I don't know why they wouldn't have used the "B" cam on the track anyway. Maybe the "K" cam was only on the street.

EDIT -- I looked at the chart again, the "B" cam was used quite a bit. http://www.nvsaac.com/shelbyparts/camshafts.htm

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I'm looking forward to the dyno results.

Of course, I look forward to finding an NOS SO block in a flea market, too...

One of the fun things about Dwight was that he had NOS 428 and 427 blocks (supposedly the 427 blocks were unused NASCAR blocks that were left over after they changed the rules) stacked around like cord wood. Lots of other NOS parts too - one of the reasons I couldn't resist going with a more original build despite weight and other "disadvantages". Funny, regardless of the HP I am actually making, I don't feel underpowered.