Edelbrock Intake Manifolds

[cwmcobra]

I've got a Ford Racing 514 that I'm installing in a Cobra replica. I started with the Performer RPM, only to find out from the kit manufacturer that its too tall to provide necessary underhood clearance. So, I installed a Performer manifold. It is lower rise, but I'm not happy that the intake port size is too small to match well with the Ford Racing CJ heads. I see Edelbrock also offers the Torker II intake that appears to be a bit lower in height than the Performer, but is recommended for CJ heads, which I take to mean it has larger intake runner ports.

Any experience with this manifold? With the 514 in a light Cobra replica, I probably don't need the low end torque of the Performer RPM? Would just spin the tires at a lower speed? Since there are no parallel performance comparisons by Edelbrock, I'd appreciate your experiences. Haven't fired the engine yet and would like to put the best intake on before I do.

Thanks,

Chuck

[Jeff Frigo]

Are we talking a 385 series or FE? An Edelbrock Performer RPM fits on my ERA with no problem with an FE. You must have a 385 series.



Jeff

[cwmcobra]

Yes, the 514 is a stroked 460, one of the 385 series. Since this will be a street vehicle, I want to use the most streetable powertrain possible. With the Torker II designed for a 2500-6500 RPM powerband, that sounds too high for street use, but with the brute impact of all that displacement at low speeds, I'm wondering if this might be a very drivable combination. I know that the Performer RPM is ranked pretty high in terms of torque production vs. other altermate manifolds. But, I have no idea where the Torker II or Performer fit in that comparison or how drivable they would be with 514 cubic inches underneath.

I'll call Edlebrock tomorrow to discuss, but real world experience is always the best.

Chuck

[427sharpe]

You should be able to port match the Performer to the heads...but you still have the problem of an intake limiting the heads. The rpm range of the cj heads really starts about 2500 rpm. This is why I used Police Interceptor heads. It seems the best way out would be to use the intake best matched to the driving you do, than modify the scoop to fit...how good is your 'glass work?

[cwmcobra]

427sharpe,

Maybe I don't understand "port matching", but I don't think it can be properly done with the Performer and the CJ heads. The intake ports on the heads are much larger than runner ports on the manifold. There would be a lot of grinding to open them to match the ports on the heads. The other problem is that with the smaller runner ports on the Performer manifold, the external dimensions around the runners are smaller than on the Performer RPM and the gasket sealing area between the manifold and head is very small. If I ground the manifold ports to match the head ports, there would be virtually no sealing surface. You really need a larger intake runner port on the manifold to come close to matching the port on the head, let alone provide a good sealing surface.

Funny you ask about glass work. I went out last night while writing the original post in this thread to visualize the hood look with a taller and possibly wider scoop. Still thinking about that one. Especially since I'm not doing the body work

Chuck

[Tom Wells]

Chuck,

I wasn't gonna answer this since it isn't a done deal, but couldn't resist! Here's where I am - first, average manifold heights from the Summit or Jeg's catalog (I forget which), or maybe the respective web sites:

Weiand Stealth: 6.0"
Edelbrock Torker II: 3.875"
Edelbrock Performer 460: 4.10"
Edelbrock Performer RPM: 5.48"

As you can see, the best street manifold, the Weiand Stealth, is 2-1/8" taller than the Torker.

My compromise is the Performer RPM at 1-5/8" taller, since it matches the ports on the aluminum Ford Racing heads OK.

I plan to increase the height of the scoop by 1-1/2" to accommodate the extra height of the manifold.

Like you I have a 514 and will use it mainly for the street. Ask me again in a couple of months how it works!

Tom

[cwmcobra]

Tom,

Looks like we are in a similar dilemma. My next problem with modifying the scoop to accomodate the Performer RPM is that I also want to get enough air filter surface to provide the required air and that is really tight in my kit. If I raise the scoop by about 1.5 inches, I can get the RPM manifold to fit, but still not enough space for a big enough air cleaner. I'm thinking about also widening the scoop so I can get a 14" drop base air cleaner in there. Then I would have a shot at the filter area I need. Of course, I also have to visualize how much of a detriment this will be to the look of the hoodline. I'm not trying to faithfully replicate, but I am concerned that it might look too strange to look good.

Decision, decisions......

Chuck

[Back in Black]

My West Coast turnkey is getting it's Ford factory 514 CI bracket race motor as I write this. The SVO 514 comes with the Edelbrock Victor Jr single plane intake standard, which Vern of West Coast is modifying for my computerized holley fuel injection. I figure the Ford factory knows what it is doing, and the rise is low so I am sticking with that intake if at all possible.
************************************************** *
Full list of my car's goodies, as best I can remember:
I have a custom turnkey West Coast cobra being built right now. As I post this, my 514 CI EFI Ford bracket race motor (600 plus horsepower) is being installed in the spaceframe, with cobra valve covers, oval air cleaner, also MSD ignition and coil. . chrome hi output alternator.. NEW 6 speed Richmond Over Drive tranny, 3:00 9 inch differential !!... Koni adjustables all around, and every other cool bit of running gear I could find !
ALL new: Leather interior, hardtop, softtop, 4 wheel coil over suspension, custom stereo with CD changer in the trunk, , grilles, louvers, custom clearcoated dark burgundy cherry pearlytic paint with ghosted platinum racing stripes, Momo Fighterlegno steering wheel, mouth grilles done in black anodized aluminum, SS brake and hydraulic lines and radiator hoses, entire frame and underside sprayed in emeron paint for corrosion resistance, wool carpets, 5 point harness, tilt all metal steering column, heavy duty radiator, cruise control, pulse windshield wipers, chrome hood and trunk sliders, Hopefully the Torque Thrust 2 mags will be available in the 17 inch by 10 inch size to fit my Michelin Z rated (186 mph plus) low profile tires. Remote paging alarm and more I am sure I forgot to list!!
ALL West Coast cars come with 4 wheel heavy duty power ABS brakes, and power assist steering. Best part for me is the word : *Turnkey *
See West Coast cars at: www.cobrakit.com

[BILL WARREN]

BACK IN BLACK....YOU NEW COBRA SOUNDS GREAT!! DID YOU LOOK AT SPF AND IF SO HOW DO YOU THINK THEY COMPARE TO WESTCOAST. IS IT OK TO TELL ME HOW MUCH MONEY YOU WILL HAVE IN YOUR GREAT NEW COBRA?? WHO IS DOING THE TURN-KEY JOB FOR YOU?

[Back in Black]

Hi Bill, and everyone else! Vern Redel himself is doing the entire car with some outside help so that somehow it is not a *totally factory new* car, (does not matter for sake of WA state registration) but he is overseeing all the work in his factory.
I looked at Superformance, they are great original looking cars for sure (and I checked out every other manufacturer also..lots of research) The IRS was a big problem, it cannot handle the extreme power output of BB (or any other really ripped ) motors nearly as well as a 9 inch Ford, and the West Coast TIG welded spaceframe, side impact protection, luxury interior, power assist steering, 4 wheel power ABS brakes sealed the deal for me. My total cost for EVERYTHING without registration and WA state excise tax, is about $72,000 Expensive, but all I have to do is pay and drive

[BILL WARREN]

THANKS FOR THE INFO.....I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME PHOTOS OF YOUR COBRA WHEN YOU HAVE TIME.

THE VERY BEST TO YOU AND YOURS

BILL WARREN

[Back in Black]

My *King Cobra* is slated for delivery in April 2002...we can't wait, it will be awesome for sure. nice to meet you Bill, and I will for sure post pics as soon as it gets here, and I can pry myself out of the car for 5 minutes

[crillyiv]

My car was set up more for the street when I bought it with a 750 and the Weiand Stealth intake. BTW my engine is a 460 with CJ heads, Comp Cams .605 lift and 248 deg duration. I wanted more power in general and especially mid to high end. I went to the Torker II with an 850. I am very happy with the change. The engine screams. I have not had it dyno'd yet, but my seat of the pants dyno tells me the engine is much stronger above 3500. I can even fit a real air cleaner under the hood now. 14" dia. K&N with about a 3" tall element and a K&N Extreme filter top. The BBs make more power than you can use at low speeds so a single plane intake doesn't bother me as it might if I had a SB. With a BB, the power can only really be put to the ground at higher speeds and I am building the car more for the track than the street. That being said, the combo is still very streetable.

[RobMcQuarie]

An intake that has not been mentioned is the Blue Thunder 460 4V intake. It has the large runners that match up to the CJ size ports, and will outperform ANY of the Edelbrock intake manifold designs. It even works well with the smaller port heads and no port match, though above 4500rpm, a port match will improve power. It is in the middle of the height range at 5.25", so it won't fit some of the cars out there. Like all of the Blue Thunder products, it is superbly made. It is the manifold of choice for our 460 builds.

For a shorter installed height, Blue Thunder makes a 2-4V intake manifold, and you get to run an extra carb to boot!

[cwmcobra]

I've heard a lot of good things about the Blue Thunder products and if I could fit the 4V intake under the hood, I'd buy one. Unfortunately, I've got to go shorter rather than taller. Ordered the Torker II today. Will install the third manifold on the engine before its been fired for the first time. Long story........

Thanks for your advice.

BTW, I talked with Edelbrock about this and the rep. told me that the Performer RPM is most recommended for street use. However, he claims that the Torker II will pull better at 2500-6500 RPM (expected) and that I will only lose 10-15 ft-lbs of torque at the low end compared with the Performer RPM (skeptical, but it sounds good). 10-15 ft-lbs out of 500-600 sounds like an excellent compromise. I hope he's right. He also claims that this is an older Edelbrock design that they keep offering it specifically for Cobra replica builders due to hood clearance difficulties that we are all familiar with.

Chuck

[jdean]

I always liked the serious look of the Victor series single plan manifolds. But they are way too tall for most BBF Cobras.

So I did a lot of cutting a grinding on my Torker II to achieve a similar look. It requires the use of the sheet metal gasket that goes under the stock 460 manifolds.

I also got rid of the heat riser passage, so the incoming air will be cooler going into the cylinders - like the RPM Air Gap.
[IMG]file:///C:/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Torker%20II/FRmanifold/TIIAG.jpg[/IMG]

[webebob]

The performer RPM bolts up to the Ford Racing aluminum CJ heads, but the mismatch in the ports is shocking. The runners in the intake are at least 25% smaller than the ports on the head.

With that said, it is the standard manifold shipped with the 486hp/460 and works wonderfully at that power range. The engine pulls so hard from 5k to 7k, a rev liliter is manditory. 1st gear unwinds from a dead stop in 1 second.

Any ideas on why/how a terribly missmatched runner intake can run so good?

Bob

[cdog]

The Torker II is a good maniford, no streetability issues. Its a bit choppy at like 1/10 throttle in 3rd, but that's no big deal.

Very low, allows for big air cleaner. With even a slightly built big motor, a single plane is fine. Actually, it may do you a favor by knockin off some of your low end torque and hp, and giving it to the top end (when you actually have traction).

[Charly]

I have a 460\535 with the victor jr manifold supplied by Ford. I think it is fun and a large part of the hobby to try to design your engine / car package for maximun performance. This being said unless you are planing to compete against others or a clock, the difference in the torque generated by the various manifolds in a car as light as a cobra makes little difference on the street. With the stock 15" wheels and street tires it is hard to utilize 75% of the torque at low RPMS. There has never been a time when I leaned hard on the throttle in the lower gears an smoked the tires and thought "Gee I wish I had more torque". Unless you are going to change tires, suspension etc. to maximize competition performance, use the manifold that fits without major and expensive body and engine mods as long as it gives you good streetable performance.

[Tigertracker]

I am going with the Torker2 on a 460 with a roller cam. Is there a consensus on which model of Carb. works best. I will be using about an 850CFM, manual choke. Haven't decided on vacuum or mechanical secondaries yet.