Cammer parts.

[damage]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the help and well wishes.

It wasn't my intention to name and shame a vendor, as some have read my thread would be aware I have already had a long running dispute with another vendor on this very same vehicle for a completely unrelated issue. The one thing that I learnt from that is that naming and shaming holds no value and normally as was my case the namer normally gets their head beaten in with a stick and accused of being a liar etc.

Most of you have already worked out where the engine came from and I am now faced with the conclusion from the vendor that because it's a race motor they offer no warranty other then for their workmanship which in my opinion is the route of the cause but that's up to me to prove and that would just involve me spending more time that couldn't be recouped.

I have today sent another email to the company politely expressing my views that they have given me the run around after a complete and total line of bull was given to me on the phone yesterday.

Disappointing to spend $60,000 on an engine and have it crap itself after only 40 miles but that's my problem now, I guess it could be much worse the engine could have punched a hole in itself and be nothing more then scrap metal luckily the parts to fix it are relatively cheap.

AND FOR THE RECORD.
David Kirkham has been a pleasure to deal with and has gone above and beyond his duty as a vendor to help out with all and anything that I had questions on or required help with. If I ever ever had to buy a Cobra there would be no other company that I would call on bar the Kirkhams.

[rodneym]

Hang in there, damage.
We want to read about you tearin' up the streets!

[mhacars]

Damage,

I feel for you as my motor was extremely expensive as well. Hopefully the problems are localized to what broke. In my case nothing broke but the indicators were there that it would have burnt up. I recommend doing a thorough inspection of everything starting with a leak down test and going from there as it pays to take your time and make sure that the motor was built properly.

[cycleguy55]

I agree that 'naming and shaming' has little or no value in solving a problem. OTOH, naming and shaming may, perhaps, provide a bit of consumer protection by providing awareness to others - even if that information isn't always completely objective and is certainly anecdotal, not empirical.

As to actually solving a problem, it would help if posts were restricted to 'solution oriented' recommendations, information or assistance but, based upon recent CC history, I have little faith this is possible.

Just my $0.02.

[philminotti]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I agree that 'naming and shaming' has little or no value in solving a problem.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. If an aggrieved party has attempted in good faith to solve a problem, then 'naming and shaming' has a place, even in civilized society. Consumer protection is important as well. And if a business is unfairly dragged through the mud, then they can sue for libel. They should and they do.

Amazon and ebay ask you to rate your experiences. Have you ever used Chowhound, Urbanspoon or Yelp to pick a restaurant? I Google every product and service I purchase followed by the word "review". This is valuable to everyone, including the injured party. How about the dealer who wrecked a brand new customer Camaro and gave the guy the runaround until it became national news? Got resolved pretty damn quick after that.

Doesn't anyone remember POP's engines, for chrissakes? They'd still be around if it wasn't for 'naming and shaming' on another site.

Even in my own business (I'm a doctor), patients post reviews in online review services. I've had a few less than glowing reviews show up, and you better believe I'd get on the phone and try to do whatever I could to improve the situation.

If a vendor wants the business that the internet can deliver, then they have to be prepared to deal with customers posting their experiences, good and bad.

JMHO.

Actually, I take it back. It's not just my opinion. These are the facts of modern business.

[MOTORHEAD]

Every "performance/racing" part I have ever purchased has been labeled "no warranty".
That said, due to the expense involved in your case, I would think the vendor would tend to "bend" the rules to preserve/enhance his reputation and keep the customer happy.
This was always my course of action in my 35yrs of business.
Ted

ps: Kirkhams have, I believe, always followed my line of thinking.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by philminotti

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. If an aggrieved party has attempted in good faith to solve a problem, then 'naming and shaming' has a place, even in civilized society. Consumer protection is important as well. And if a business is unfairly dragged through the mud, then they can sue for libel. They should and they do.

Amazon and ebay ask you to rate your experiences. Have you ever used Chowhound, Urbanspoon or Yelp to pick a restaurant? I Google every product and service I purchase followed by the word "review". This is valuable to everyone, including the injured party. How about the dealer who wrecked a brand new customer Camaro and gave the guy the runaround until it became national news? Got resolved pretty damn quick after that.

Doesn't anyone remember POP's engines, for chrissakes? They'd still be around if it wasn't for 'naming and shaming' on another site.

Even in my own business (I'm a doctor), patients post reviews in online review services. I've had a few less than glowing reviews show up, and you better believe I'd get on the phone and try to do whatever I could to improve the situation.

If a vendor wants the business that the internet can deliver, then they have to be prepared to deal with customers posting their experiences, good and bad.

JMHO.

Actually, I take it back. It's not just my opinion. These are the facts of modern business.

Your response attempts to counter my statement of not solving the problem, but is really about consumer awareness and protection.

I hope you do a better job listening to your patients and diagnosing their problems than you did dissecting and responding to what I wrote.

[damage]

Ok so no luck with my warranty, apparently needed photos which I ve now sent 3 times and they've recieved them but will not return my emails and won't give me any answers on the phone.

Keith Craft warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on. Apparently it's for workman ship only but when you prove its their workmanship they stop talking to you.

[slider701]

Not to sound like a dick but it seems you had issues with the guy who was building your car for you (wasn't there a huge pissing contest thread on that), had issues with Kirkhams (which is really hard to believe), and now issues with KC, one of the most respected builders in the industry.

I'm seeing a common theme here and the common denominator sure doesn't seem to be with two of the most respected businesses in the industry (can't speak to the third in AU but if I remember correctly he bent over backwards trying to make things right for you but to no avail as it seems like you were never satisfied and just bad mouthed him)

Maybe buying a turn-key Porsche would have been better for you.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by slider

Not to sound like a dick but it seems you had issues with the guy who was building your car for you (wasn't there a huge pissing contest thread on that), had issues with Kirkhams (which is really hard to believe), and now issues with KC, one of the most respected builders in the industry.

I'm seeing a common theme here and the common denominator sure doesn't seem to be with two of the most respected businesses in the industry (can't speak to the third in AU but if I remember correctly he bent over backwards trying to make things right for you but to no avail as it seems like you were never satisfied and just bad mouthed him)

Maybe buying a turn-key Porsche would have been better for you.

And so it begins already. Why can't people just wait to hear more information and see how things pan out before taking sides and attacking one party or the other? No wonder folks are reluctant to post consumer/product-related info.
BTW - I have been lightly following Damage's saga, mainly because I'm really intrigued by cammer Cobra builds, and I don't recall anything other than praise and satisfaction with Kirkham.

[philminotti]

THIS thread was about a cammer that ate itself in 40 miles. 40 miles. Not about the car or anything else. A 40 mile engine.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by damage

Ok so no luck with my warranty, apparently needed photos which I ve now sent 3 times and they've recieved them but will not return my emails and won't give me any answers on the phone.

Keith Craft warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on. Apparently it's for workman ship only but when you prove its their workmanship they stop talking to you.

I know this probably won't be received well as KC is almost part of the establishment here... But I can't say this is the first time I've heard that.

[damage]

Not entirely sure what threads you have read or If you even read them at all.

Not for one second have I suggested stated or implied that I have had any issues with the Kirkhams.

David Kirkham has been exemplary as a vendor throughout my whole process of getting my Kirkham built and delivered and on the road. He has exceeded my expectations in every aspect of his service.

The motor I paid for from Keith Craft comes with a warranty.

THIS MOTOR HAS ONLY DONE 40 MILES 65 kilometres AND BROKE.

KC has basically ignored every email and phone call that I have made KC has also ignored every request from David Kirkham as well. This has been going on since early November.

I don't think its too much to ask that a brand new motor that has only done 40 miles gets some warranty assistance ESPECIALLY when the assitance that I have requested from KC was for PARTS ONLY.

Originally Posted by slider701

Not to sound like a dick but it seems you had issues with the guy who was building your car for you (wasn't there a huge pissing contest thread on that), had issues with Kirkhams (which is really hard to believe), and now issues with KC, one of the most respected builders in the industry.

I'm seeing a common theme here and the common denominator sure doesn't seem to be with two of the most respected businesses in the industry (can't speak to the third in AU but if I remember correctly he bent over backwards trying to make things right for you but to no avail as it seems like you were never satisfied and just bad mouthed him)

Maybe buying a turn-key Porsche would have been better for you.

[damage]

Originally Posted by damage

AND FOR THE RECORD.
David Kirkham has been a pleasure to deal with and has gone above and beyond his duty as a vendor to help out with all and anything that I had questions on or required help with. If I ever ever had to buy a Cobra there would be no other company that I would call on bar the Kirkhams.

Here's my earlier post on this same thread.

[maurice19]

Damage,

Hear Hear

Maurice

[RodKnock]

Thanks, Damage. I appreciate the customer feedback.

When you spend $40,000 or $50,000, you should expect more than 40 or 50 miles on the engine.

[FatBoy]

Regardless of the technicalities, this isn't being handled well by KC from what I'm reading. It would have been far more prudent to have replaced the broken parts without question.

At the complete opposite end of the scale, I had an engine from Southern Automotive that broke a rocker shaft after 5 years. When I called Bill to order some replacement parts, he asked me what parts I needed and sent them free of charge, no ifs or buts.

Bill stood by his products without question. He wasn't infallable, nobody is, but he always did his utmost to put it right.

The fuel tank on my 7 year old Kirkham started leaking last year on some of the spot welds, which had burnt through. A new tank is currently on its way from Poland as I write, courtesy of KMS.

Good customer service isn't rocket science, but it's amazing how many people get it so badly wrong.

Paul

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by maurice19

Damage,

Hear Hear

Maurice

Maurice,

If you don't mind sir... I just need a little clarification.

Are your comments in support of Damage directed at his thoughts of Kirkham (and David Kirkham), or in support of Damage's comments regarding KC, or both?

I only ask because I note that your info states you have a KC built engine.

Feel free to PM if you prefer.

Kind regards

[mhacars]

Damage,

I hear your pain and was right there with you when Barillaro built my cammer. I have lived this movie and the ending is never good. Hopefully, by exposing Keith Craft you have at the very least done a service to others on this forum. If you want it done right and put this episode behind you, I suggest contacting Ernie Elliott as he is the real deal when it comes to engine building.

[Dwight]

A couple of our guy had problems with their 427 / 482 KC motors. Twice he came to town and repaired them. We live about 7 hours from Keith's shop.

The last time he mailed the parts and paid a local Ford mechanic to replace the cam and lifters. Lifter failed and damaged the cam.

The other motor a rocker came loose.

Several others have his motors with thousands of miles on them and no problems.

New parts break and sometime your guys just make a mistake.
For us Keith has always made it right.

I would buy a motor from Keith Craft.

Dwight