Hydraulic Roller

[BOBOCobra]

Guys, there was a lot of discussion about this in many old posts but I am wondering how this turned out for those that have done this.

I have the Ford Racing 521 setup with a C6 and the mechanical rollers and I think this is a ticking time bomb with the spring pressures on the rollers/cam for a street car. I want to change over to the hydraulic rollers, new cam/springs/rockers/push rods...

I have 5000 miles on the original setup but I am going to do some other work this winter and am thinking about making this swap. Thinking a Crane cam and associated parts required.

Comments? How has this worked out?

[Bill D]

I had one in my 503 BBF. It was something like .650 lift. Sounded awesome and went like a raped ape. Crane cam and lifters

[Tom Wells]

BOBO,

I've had the Crane hydraulic roller setup in both my 460-based engines, forever. In numeric terms, that's 35K miles in the 521 Cobra and 11K miles in the 557.

I've used them on the street, at the track, and idling for literally three hours at a time in parades.

Absolutely no problems from either setup; 400+ horsepower at the rear tires and 500+ ft-lbs of torque over a very wide rpm range, thru an IRS and a C-6 automatic. Pump gas. Sticky (200 wear rating) street tires can be spun at will.

Happy camper here.

I got rid of the Ford solid roller and cam setup before the engine went into the Cobra for the reason you state: solid rollers are high maintenance items. If you are willing to replace the lifters every 5K (or less!) then you should be OK. Surprisingly most of the high stress for a solid roller seems to occur at or near idle - apparently the low-speed dynamics (read shock loads) are worse for that setup than higher speeds are.

Good idle (no one ever asked if it's a small block ;-) ), plenty of go when asked.

Let us know how it goes,

Tom

[BOBOCobra]

Thanks Tom, that is great feedback. Yep, I have lashed it 3 times in 5000 miles and #5 and 6 exhaust are getting loose and my guess is I am one red light away from a failure. I love the solid roller but this original setup is a 7000+ rpm racer and I just dont go there.

What combo did you use. I am looking at the Crane cam setup but the biggest question for me is the springs/spring pressure. I also hear the rod angles are a bit messed up for a SCJ head and can cause some wear issues. I would love to hear how you set yours up. I wont go over 5500 anymore, I have burnt up enough rubber, so float is not an issue for me.

[Hotfingrs]

I personally love solid roller cams and associated valve train. Current set up has been in car for six years and never once needed adjustment when I checked. I swear by T&D rockers and Crower liftrs. Cam has .735 lift, spring pressures closed 205 open 610. easy 8000 rpm shifts. Rev limiter set at 7200. Cam by Crane.

[blykins]

A hydraulic roller swap is a logical choice. If you're wanting a lower rpm range now, there's no use in incurring the risk of a solid roller without reaping the benefits of a solid roller...

You will need a valve spring change, as well as a cam and lifter change. You could do the swap for around $1025 including the camshaft, lifters, valve springs, and retainers.

Most of your off-the-shelf Ford cams will be based on GM patterns....6° intake/exhaust duration split, 110° LSA, etc. If you want to get the best bang for your buck, you may think about going with a custom camshaft.

[BOBOCobra]

Thanks Blykins, that is exactly what I was finding in terms of cams. I will need to get some help on this one as I am going to pull the motor and dont have the space anymore. I figured about $1100 parts plus labor.

I did some research last night and there was a lot of chatter on the 460 forum about rod angles and seal wear. To me, it seems to be a minor issue for a "fun" car that is not a DD or a commercial workhorse. Any insight on this would be appreciated. I know the old BBC had some angle issues and it seems nobody made a big deal of it.

I will also look at a custom grind, I agree that is a good option. If I go that route I will talk to the cam guys about what they think. I have pretty much decided this is the way I am going to go, there seems to be a minor downside to this other than high end performance.

I guess the thing I am asking if there are any bear traps I need to look for from guys that have walked this path?

[blykins]

All canted valve heads are in the same boat. I have had zero issues out of hydraulic or solid roller camshafts with my 460 based engines. The 460 head is the big brother to the Cleveland....and again, zero issues there.

My advice is to call an engine builder and not a "cam guy". The cam guys that answer the phones are usually not engine builders and certainly don't have experience with most of the Ford engines....they are mainly Chevy guys.

Most of us are direct with most camshaft manufacturers and have lobe catalogs at our fingertips in order to call in a custom camshaft.

[Detroit Bill]

I have a hydraulic roller. It gives up at 5800-6000. Given my time back I might go to solid lifters. If you want to take it over 6K hydraulic is not for you.

[blykins]

I've been doing a lot of hydraulic roller FE's with factory non-adjustable rocker arms. They will go over 6000 with the correct camshaft.

[Detroit Bill]

How far over?

[blykins]

With the right cam, we've had them to 6500 on the dyno.

[Detroit Bill]

When my motor was build I don't think that was the prevailing thinking. Are you talking lobe shape?

[blykins]

Lobe shape and a large enough cam that it doesn't peter out at 5500....

Most guys don't want to build a $20k engine and put a $350 set of rocker arms on there. So no, it's not prevailing thinking, but it works.....

[Tom Wells]

BOBO,

Here's the Crane cam info for you: http://www.cranecams.com/254-255.pdf

Both my engines use the 359351 profile with their lifter, pushrod and spring recommendations. Fifteen years ago this was their most aggressive profile, and since as engine size gets larger, the bigger cams seem to act tamer than they would in a smaller engine, so I selected this profile.

I heartily agree with the above info about making sure everything matches in the valve train.

Since the Cobra is fairly light, I ignored their recommendation for stall speed for my C6s; I use 1600-1800 in each car. Don't know what it would do for the drag strip, but it helps keep the heat down on the track, and makes highway driving less of a chore. If you use a stick shift, this info is irrelevant ;-)

I use a 6000 redline when I'm on the track (as if I really need to but it keeps the rev limiter from going off as frequently) and 5500-5800 for the street. The power is always enough for me in either circumstance - you may have another perspective.

Pushrod angle was thought to be a factor - it hasn't been for me (yet)...

Hope this helps,

Tom

[BOBOCobra]

Blykins, good advise and I hear you come highly recommended as a builder. I will sit down and talk to a local guy that is going to help me and discuss options and at that point we may give you a call and get your help. The issue is standard or custom grind, rod length and rocker/spring choices. You seem to understand completely what and why I am going here and that is half the battle!

Thanks.

[blykins]

That is a VERY mild lobe in both terms of lobe aggression and duration. A 520 inch engine would need about 20 degrees more duration.

Here's another engine builder tip:

Be very cautious when using components straight off the catalog pages. When writing these catalogs, the writers have no knowledge of what displacement your engine is, how much your heads flow, what valves are in your cylinder heads, if the spring pockets have been cut, etc. A valve spring that's recommended may work just fine on one head, but if another head has different valve lengths, spring pockets have been cut, etc., the spring pressures will just not be correct.

It's best to take some measurements on your own, act as though the descriptions are not even there, and use the numbers to make the selections.

[BOBOCobra]

Tom, you and I are on the same page. I too have a much smaller converter due to weight of the car. I think I am in the 2000 range and will not change that, I like the way it works for the way I am driving it. I tried a higher stall and it was like driving an amusement park cart "racer".

I was looking at that cam and the one on each side of it, that was kind of the optimal spot for a standard cam. I am really glad to hear the positive feedback and lets me know I am on the right thought process. Thanks much and I will keep you informed as I move forward.

[iva bigan]

BOBOCobra
That will be a great move to remove that cam, mine lasted 6000 miles , hardened metal
Fragments are getting thrown around the crankcase long before you relise a lifter has failed, these particles migrate up between the pistons and bores, also have a good feel of the roller rockers as the trunnions surfaces can also break down due to the spring pressure.

Iva Bigan