Most powerful Cobra engine

[MRITTER]

Bowtie - Mid 11's should not be any problem. The first time I took my FFR to the dragstrip the first run was a 11.26 @ 127 mph on Nitto drag radials pushing 8 lbs boost. That was with a 2.05 second 60' time!

Of course this was from a lil' ol' 302.

I think mid 10's will be easily attainable now that I have turned the boost up to 10 lbs.

Sorry, I know this is the 429/460 engine forum - I'll leave now.

Mike

[justa6]

Its really interesting how I read about the Horsepower the various Cobra's have (or are going to have). My only question is instead of horsepower claims why don't we discuss 1/4 mile times. Since (IMO) that is the proof of the pudding.

I'll start it off. I run a Buick V6 with no turbo, supercharger or Nitrous. Its got 11 1/2 to 1 compression. It runs 10.8 @ 124 MPH. Its 274 cubic inches with one 1073 CFM Holley (flowed 1000). It weighs in at 2350 lbs on a calibrated scale ready to go but without me in it.

Oh for the Horsepower guys, it puts out a measly 473 at the crankshaft. So how come all these high horsepower 500+ inch Cobra's aren't running at least high 9's? My buddy's 3600 lbs Grand National runs 10.20's at 133 all day long with almost twice the weight.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket but it would be fairly easy to put a 150HP shot of NOS on my little six and it would go high 9's. By the way the car with M/T ET streets (8"s) does 1.40's 60' times. A picture of the motor in my "photos" and you can count the exhaust ports (there are 3 on each side).

Its not the horsepower or weight. Its the combination that makes a car quick. Underpower or overpower the car and it'll be a toad.

Blown Big blocks in a Cobra? Well to each his own I guess...

In my opinion of course,

[cobrashoch]

Justa6 - I'll tell you the same thing that I told a fellow from Chi Town at the fling that runs a 3.8 six. Your car SHOULD run 10's. Don't forget that your car would run C or D gas if you was to run your legal class in NHRA racing. That said I totally agree with your statment that it is a combination thing that produces the results. If you don't believe what we have been saying above please remember that by in large these cars were not made to be ran 1/4 mile at a time. You are indeed in that group of guys that are the exception, and so am I. My car was NHRA certified just 5 weeks ago and is built with the 8.80 index in mind. If you want to talk about it you can e-mail me at rnldshock@aol.com as I don't want to broadcast this cars credentials over public forums. I've been running NHRA style for quite some time now and yes I chose a big block to run because of duribility/cost issues, not power issues. In fact, in no posts I made above mentions power numbers, but I did mention times. Yes, big blocks should run in the 10's and 9's. But not in street Cobras. And that includes sixes that produce over 450 hp. So what else is new?
cobrashoch

[justa6]

Regarding your>>>>Yes, big blocks should run in the 10's and 9's. But not in street Cobras. And that includes sixes that produce over 450 hp. So what else is new? <<<<

Ok so let me get this straight. A BB Chevy or Ford should run in the 10's and so should a 274" normally aspirated V6?

My car is a STREET car. It has no cage just a typical Cobra roll bar. I run DOT tires and Baffles in the exhaust. The car get 20mpg on the street. The motor runs very cool and idles fine.

In closing, my comments were directed at those that think that Horsepower alone means anything. They were to make the point that unless you get the power to the ground your going to be very embarrased by someone with a lot less motor.

Oh and the guy you talked to from Chicago was John Spina. He has a Turbo on his V6 with an automatic. Mine has a 4 barrel and a 5 speed.

Regards,

[jrichard]

justa6- if you read the posts from the beginning I think you'll find most of us BB guys argree that huge HP that can't be transmitted to the pavement is useless. Either the tires spin or things break. a well designed car for street or drag should be able to hook up and go straight without blowing u-joints apart.

[Jim Gunther]

Hi Bob (Justa6),

I'm a great admirer of what you do with your car.

You obviously put the power to the pavement with those 60' times.

Never mind the horsepower - we can all buy horsepower - what's your rear-end set-up (gears, bars, etc), tires and the rest?
Or would you have to kill me?

[RACER X #99]

Justa6,

In all fairness to the BB guys you are running a pro built Nascar 6 while many are running an engine that Nascar stopped using 30 years ago.

Can you imagine how a guy feels when he just spent 20k on a 427 SO and gets blown away by a little six cyl.
How many car show hours were spent explaining in detail about all the great parts that his " pro Ford Engine builder" put into his BB. How he impressed the crowd as he pulls away and his sidepipes let out that great rumble. How he scares away all those Viper and Zo6 owners out on the highway.
Then you come along and burst his bubble. Shame on you.

Oh, I forgot there is no replacement for displacement.I'll bet that scares the hell out of you.

Keep up thr good work,
Cranky

[justa6]

Good morning...

I thought I'd comment on your comment about>>>In all fairness to the BB guys you are running a pro built Nascar 6 while many are running an engine that Nascar stopped using 30 years ago.

Well mine was stopped almost 20 years ago and its still 274 inches<G>

Anyway, my point was that it seems to me that everyone tries to measure their cars performance by either Real horsepower or theoretical horsepower. When, in fact, its meaningless unless you can get it to the ground. The cars actual performance is the real measure. Needless to say a lot of people could care less about how fast their car is, they just love to drive it. Which is also fine.

Adding more and more horsepower without getting the car to be fast first is "less than optimal" in my opinion. I mentioned that I've thought of running Nitrous for the hell of it but I won't until I get the car really set up as is. I think 10.5 is possible on the motor. IF that happens then a 150 shot of NOS should be a no brainer high 9's. But then again I may just be happy with the mid 10s and no "help"...

Also, the above is simply my opinion and we are all entitled to do it our own way. Mine is only right for me...

JIM: No, the setup for my car is as it came from Johnex. No bars, 4:11 Ford 9" with a Powertrax center section. Tremec Road Race 5 speed whose overdrive mitigates the 4:11's on the street. I use Mickey Thompson ET Streets 8" wide. I'm thinking of going to 10" "Streets" to see if it will go mid 10's. Launch RPM right now is 6000 and side step the clutch. The tires "chirp" and the car leaves so the bigger tires might not help. I've got the shift light set for 7400 RPM and rev limiter set at 8,200.

Regards,

[Mike Braddock]

Bob,

Adding more and more horsepower without getting the car to be fast first is "less than optimal" in my opinion

Well said. Regardless of the racing venue--drag, autoX, open track, etc.

By the way, how do you like the PowerTrax for street use? Is it a full locker? Thanks.

Mike

[justa6]

Thanks...

The Powertrax that I use is called a No Slip and its not a locker although they do make one.

This one has no clutches of any kind. Its works kind of like a sychonizer in a trans. It keeps the wheels locked together when they are the same speed. As soon as they vary then it unlocks. At first it was "notchy" but after a hundred miles or so I don't notice anything except good traction. Here is their web site. I find it excellent on the street.

http://www.powertrax.com/auto.htm

Rich Anderson from Shell Valley uses them and I took his advice and bought one. By the way Rich is a really nice guy who is a great source of info on BIG motors in Cobra's. He was the only person that I met that knew about the motor I use.

Regards,

[gary_bowers]

Justa6,

I don't know what sactioning body covers the drag strip that you are running 10's on but without a cage you'd only be doing it once around here !

Gary

[justa6]

One of the real pleasures of living in Georgia is that you can take your car down to Silver Dollar raceway on Test and Tune days (nights) and "run what you brung". I don't have a cage in my Grand National either and am not about to put one in my Cobra.

You do have to have a helmet if the car is a convertable and a drive shaft strap.

Run & Gun is the same deal. You have to have a roll bar but no cage.

Actually I'm thinking about another track that is closer that's a 1/8 mile track. I've never liked 8th mile but the more I thought about it for tweaking its the "launch" that matters the rest is not missing any gears.

Regards,

[Fred Douglass]

Justa6

Bob,
Izzat you in the "Bitten by the Snake" video? Terrific car!

Chow,

[BANDIT 1]

My reasoning for putting on a ATI (Pro Charger) is mostly for the looks, with my high compression Big Block engine I will only be running 15 - 30% boost. I don't think with the right "setup" that I will have any problems putting that power to the ground. As far as fitting the ATI supercharger under the hood, with the 460 (520 c.i.) engine there appears to be plenty of room up front if the expansion tank is moved or removed. I thought about having a custom intercooler made for mounting where the oil cooler is, however I am in the early stages of deciding. I would prefer to have a roots style supercharger (looks really cool...), however I don't think there is enough room.

[cobrashoch]

Justa6- No you got it wrong- A BB should run in the 8's. Your car should run in the 10's. Don't get me wrong, from a distance I am a fan of your car. Re; John Spina, we must of bench raced for over 2 hours at the hotel at the fling. I really do like different stuff. But I also deal with facts. Without seeing your car (just a guess) I still say your car is a D gas car- NHRA style. To put it another way, Mritter popped in with his blown 302 and without seeing HIS car (just a guess) I would say his car runs C or maybe B-gas. In any rate even with 2 pts in class differences your index's are only .02 seconds apart. Now where's that national dragster? It brings things into perspective.
The war between block sizes is a fools game. A quick look at the index list and what each type of car that is there, and owns the record proves that. Thats why there are guys looking to run that magic combo of a 4 door station wagon w/a 413 that weighs 2770 lbs for example to get to a index. Competitive advantage they call it.
When you know what you index , the next time you slam a big block for example maybe you shouldn't feel so good about that SB. I know down thru the years I havn't felt so good with my index some 2.5 seconds faster than what I just ran. I have seen 1200hp 4 cylinder engines as I used to run a dyno a few years back. There is a lot of confusion out there about size and V/8's and power. For the guys that think a smaller engine is better, they best need to remember that argument is circular, and that there REALLY IS other guys out there with a better mousetrap. They usially run another brand or style and at first you won't like it one bit. Don't let a big, fat, hard head get in your way with pre concieved ideas. The smallblock guys are the worst there I've seen lately.
As for your own description of your Cobra it just backs up my 500 hp orthodoxy statment from my above post. That car of yours don't know that 450 hp is comming from a 460 ford or a 6 or a 350 chevy. Getting a Cobra car to handle over 600 hp well, now THAT'S the direction I'm trying to go. No I'm not trying, I am doing it, but it's taking time as I'm in virgin territory here and boy have I made some mistakes.
Your car would be blackball'ed big time here in Indy to, as you described it I think. I personally wouldn't even think of running it as you described it either. My NHRA inspector is a good freind and I wouldn't even think of trying to slide something by him. But I'm still a fan of yours though, as I know how hard it is to get where you are. LOL. and keep the shiney side down.

cobrashoch

[Jeff Frigo]

Mine! Sorry, couldn't resist.

[ac andy]

there is just no substitute for cubic inches! long live the big block!

[justa6]

First I never built my car to run NHRA. Its a STREET car that we bring to the drag strip for Test and Tune, which is exactly what we do. I also autocross it and do a "little" road racing. The car is FAR better than I am at the Across and RR. ie a better driver would be able to do more with it than me. But then again I'm an airline pilot and that is what I do well.

Second, how do you figure that a similar car with a 302 V8 that is BLOWN would be one class ahead of me? Perhaps in NHRA's convoluted thinking it might be but think about it.

For EVERY RPM a V8 gets 4 power strokes to make X amount of horsepower. While a V6 has only 3 power strokes to make the SAME horsepower. Obviously a 4 has 2. Or to put it another way. My Buick has 274 cubic inches and puts out 473 HP. That's approx. 1.8 HP per cubic inch. The bore and stroke are close to a 350 chevy. Which would have to put out 630 HP with fairly low compression and a 4 barrel. Oh and it gets to have that extra power stroke per revolution. A 540 BB would have to put out 972HP with the extra stroke.

Also, my original point was very simple. I never meant that putting a BB into a Cobra was wrong. I only said that putting monster motors into a Cobra didn't necessarily mean it would be FAST. I said that, IMO, the point of the exercise was to get the available power to be useful. Which is MY opinion. Doesn't make it right for everyone.

Oh, and regarding the "safety equipment" my last "street vehicle" was a Turbo Kawasaki that ran 9.30 @ 150 with only a wheelie bar so I could turn up the boost. It didn't have a "cage" either<G>
Come to think of it neither does the 747 although it does have a "hump".

Regards,

[cobrashoch]

Bob - Points well taken and correct. Re; the class rules- I don't make em, I just have to live with them unless I bracket race. You also didn't mention the fun factor............... Hope to see ya sometime. Back to the cave and that rear end setup that I am hopelessly lost on.
cobrashoch

[webebob]

I've always said I would like to have 3 Cobras. Each with a diferent engine to perform different functions.

And without a doubt, one of those would be to fulfil the "Cobra's are about excess". And in that light, I'b be trying to stuff a v-12 merlin in one! Which is what I thought this thread was about before it became a "which engine is best" thread.

Lets continue with the "which engine is the most over the top" thread.

Bob