Let's cool it down

[Collinsboys]

OK, let's take a poll, what is a good temp range for a big bad 460 and mostly "what are the best ways to keep it cool?". Got it installed this winter operating at about 195 which made me happy until we hit a 90 degree day. This is where it hit the fan, I'm running at 195 to 210 on the highway and it will creep to 220 in traffic.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, going to a 302 is not considered good help. Love that BB sound and that's why I'm here.
Thanks

[Back in Black]

With a thermostat. This will allow it to work when needed, and be non-existant when not needed. Be careful to hook it up in the proper sequence, and look at oil pressure right off the bat, on startup !

[cobrashoch]

I don't know what You have done so far but a trip to Double Venoms shop will be worth while. He will give you specific fan types and directions for their use. Together with the right radiator and proper shrouding I think you will find your problem to be history. A fan puller setup will generally work better on cobras than a pusher setup and this eliminates the fan getting into the radiator too.
I personally think a oil cooler is obsolete on cobras and at best a band aid fix to THIS problem. I opted instead for a heat exchanger setup similar to the setup sold by Gordon Levy racing in Arizona. ( another thread ) Use water/antifreeze wetter, I am using Red Line but there are others that work just as well.
Another thing, use regular antifreeze, not permanent Dextron as reported here on Club Cobra as this stuff could corrode certain engine parts. And use distilled water in the mix as salts in drinking water will coat your coolant system reducing its efficiency. I know this isn't popular here on this board but a copper radiator will work better that it's aluminum counterpart, though it will be heavier. Make sure you use a reservoir at the high point of your engine to get the air out, and for sure run a thermostat.
In short, Go see Ed. He's been around the block a few times on this one.
cobrashock

[jrichard]

I use a less than 50/50 antifreeze/distilled water mix and add WaterWetter per instructions on the bottle. I've used WW in all my motorcycles and cars and it seems to work, and I live in central Texas where we routinely have 90 deg days for weeks at a time. good luck.

[Collinsboys]

Got the oil cooler, and going to see DV is a good idea. I put some Purple Ice in the system and it dropped about 10 degrees, but I'm still not down where I want to be. Using an aluminum Griffen radiator with a Flexlite 30 series puller fan. The shroud doesn't cover the who radiator and I was thinking a larger shroud dual puller fan would be the answer.

[racer24]

I run 180-190 in hot weather with a Griffen radiator, and dual flex-lite scirocco pusher fans. I have one switched and the other run all the time. I use a restrictor instead of a thermostat. I only have a 351 cleveland . If I get in heavy traffic we switch the second fan on.. no problems.

Rich

[Frank Coppola]

Alright now I'm stumped. I have a 460 with a Griffen rad, cool flex lines, an expansion tank, an Edelbrock high flow water pump, a matched 180deg. thermostat, a 16" puller fan AND twin pushers from Finish line. I'm using 20% water and two bottles of watter wetter. I'm running about 205 normal and up to 220 on the highway on a hot day. Traffic is an impossibility unless it's snowing out. Before you say pushers and pullers don't work together, I tried turning off the pullers as DV suggested, but that was worse. My mechanical water temp guage is located in the heater outlet, just below the thermostat. (There is no heater in the car.) I also have an electric sensor on the water pump which would turn on a light at 210 degrees. That light has not gone off yet, so the radiator is working somewhat.

How hot is too hot?

What else can I try?

HELP!

[Clois Harlan]

Collinsboys and Frank,

We all have similar problems and traffic lights seem to be all our worst enemy. I am doing the same as everyone else and still find that a hot day and traffic don't mix. I too have my mechanical thermostat located in my heater line hose port (not running a heater either). My temp will rise from 190 to about 220 at a long stop light and then go down within a few hundred feet of the light.

Still trying to decide on wheather to switch to aluminum radiator (19"x24") will actually help. Sooner or later someone will hit on a cure for this inconvience.

My 5.4 litre expeditions temperature when pulling my Cobra in an enclosed trailer in 90 degree weather and setting at a stop light never moves past the middle mark of the temp gauge. What's the deal? More meat I guess and less compression.

Clois

[Frank Coppola]

The reason your temp guage in the expedition doesn't move is because they are calibrated that way. I'd bet big money that if you put an aftermarket guage on a new car it would read much different than the factory guage. Reason is, that if the guage was accurate it would mean more people bringing there car in for service. Come to think of it, mabye I should just take the guage out. Then my cobra wouldn't run hot anymore, right?

I still would like to know how hot is too hot. I did switch to a higher pressure cap so my ride doesn't throw up as quickly!

[wilf leek]

Hiya guys. I can't really offer any tips on additional cooling over and above what has already been said many times on this forum, however, so far I see one thing missing - guage accuracy.

Car guages are not accurate, calibrated devices, unless you go to some race oriented types.
My first move, faced with a car that worried me because of the guage reading, would be to double check it against a good, accurate, electronic thermocouple type instrument.
The reading you get on a mechanical Smiths type temp guage is only relative - you can't count on it for absolute temperature readings.
If your car is not puking steam and water at 220 degrees on the guage, you may not have a problem. It is only natural for temps to rise as ambient temperature goes up, or road speed and hence radiator airflow, goes down.

Double check your guage reading against an accurate instrument - I did, found my guage was actually under-reading by 10 degrees (centigrade). Made me reset my fan cut in temp pronto.
HTH

[Jahred]

FYI, my 514 runs pretty steady at 180 on the highway. I will creep higher when run hard and in traffic.

I think the gauge is pretty accurate. I had had oil problems with a prior engine and the gauge had no qualms about hitting 230. I have done nothing special. Large diameter fan, aluminum radiator, coolant, 180 thermo. I try to run some mystery oil with the gas to keep it lubed better.

[Collinsboys]

Frank,
I spoke with Bob Kallio at Midstates and he suggested going with a 12 to 14lb cap to allow the expansion tank to do its thing. Also hook your hose to the bottom of the puke tank to allow the system to suck the coolant back in.

In his opinion 460's that he has done always run at 195 and up to 220 on 90F days in traffic. His advise was that if you start to cool after getting out of traffic then you're OK to rise to 220. 230 is bad 240 you better shut it off.

I agree on the Expedition guage comment. I have one too and I know the guage doesn't really work, nor the oil pressure.

[Dior55]

When I first got my 460 crate (FMS 535 HP) on the road last June, I too was having a hot running condition that I didn't like. Engine ran at 190 and if stuck in traffic form more than 3 minutes it would shoot up to 220 +. Here's a couple of things I learned/did which seem to have attacked most of the problem:

1. Took MOST of the antifreeze out the system and ran good ol' mother nature's h2o. I learned that antifreeze has less cooling properties than water. I left a bit of antifreeze in for corrosion purposes. This was, BY FAR, the singularly best improvement in the cooling of my engine. Water ROCX!!!

2. Changed thermostat to 160. I know this doesn't really help when stuck in traffic, but now the car on the road runs at about 165 or so, and gives me about 8 minutes of being stuck in traffic before the temp gauge goes over 200!

3. I bought two bottles of water wetter but have yet to use them. Now that the sticky days of 2002 are upon us, I might see if there's an improvement.

4. You might want to check your timing and how much you've leaned out your carb. Both of these conditions will seriously affect operating temperature. If you retard the timing a degree or so, you may see a vast improvement in temperture, and the loss of power would be negligable for street driving (ya', like your 2000 lb. plastic toy can notice the difference between 500 hp and 535 hp between traffic lights!!!) Same too with the carbs. Leaning out your mixture will always make an engine run hotter.

My car now runs great and cooling is not a big problem. If I got stuck in a big traffic jam it would be an issue, I'm sure, but hey, these cars were not meant to be driven in traffic jams!

[Frank Coppola]

I'm going to do 3 things:

1- check the timing

2- put a pyrometer on it to check the guage accuracy

3- only drive my car in the winter if 1 or 2 doesn't work.

Since I've done everything else I'm really at a loss. All these stories of you guys running monster motors at 180degrees has me VERY frustrated!

Has anyone heard that high octane fuel helps the engine run cooler?

Should I change my rear so I'm not turning so fast (3,000rpm) at 70mph +/-

Do you think fans in the vents by the headers would help or should I get an even bigger radiator?

[wilf leek]

have you double checked the ignition timing? Running with timing off can cause overheating.

Also, it's probably worth checking that the TDC mark on the crank damper is actually lined up correctly - the old bolt down the spark plug hole and turn the engine both ways method works fine.

HTH

[Tom Wells]

Hi Frank,

A few things come to mind that I've not seen mentioned above, so here goes my addition to the composite wit:

1) is the water pump turning fast enough? It is good to have the water pump pulley diameter/crank pulley diameter ratio up to snuff. It is somewhere around 1:1 although the pump pulley can turn a bit faster or slower than 1:1. As examples you might want to look at the March web site where 460 crank pulley / water pump pulley size pairs are given, such as (crank/pump) 5.75"/6", 5.5"/6.25", 5.75"/5.25" and 5.75"/5.5".

2) is the water pump turning the correct direction? Some are made to run opposite due to being designed to use serpentine belts. Check part numbers with Edelbrock. If it is turning the opposite way from what it is supposed to turn, its output will decrease a LOT!

3) Ford has introduced a new water pump with extra capacity ("MAXIMUM FLOW") for the 460 - part number M-8501-C460. It is now standard on the 460 crate motors. You don't suppose there was an overheating problem that caused them to make this change, do you?

My 521 does fine with the above pump, unless there is a big air bubble trapped in the system

Let us know what you find out!

Regards,

Tom

[Frank Coppola]

Tom,

That looks like an excellent thought, I will check it out. I doubt the pump is turning the wrong way as it's the entire motor was professionally rebuilt. Everyone makes mistakes though so I'll double check. I'll look into the pulleys and the Ford pump as well.

Thanks!

[Collinsboys]

Dior55,

Thanks for the insight on the 160 thermostat, I was thinking that too but hadn't tried it yet. Thought it might buy a few minutes in traffic after being on the freeway.

I haven't used Waterwetter yet, but will. I have heard the same about H20 but have always been a bid leary to go below a 50/50 mix.

My cooling problems aren't as bad as Frank's it seems, I'm just trying to tweek mine out and get it as low as possible.

BTW, what timing are you running on your Ford crate, I have the same engine. I know what Ford's recommendations are, but was wondering what you are running. I was thinking of using an MSD timing retarder switch below the dash and advancing it before I want to show off to give me as many ponys as possible.

[Collinsboys]

Frank,

Just occured to me, and you may have checked this already, but...
Check to make sure your fill port is higher than the manifold. Mine was close initially due to hood clearance and as tall as these BB pigs are in the compartment I overlooked this basic point and created an air pocket, it "appeared" to be high enough, but was not, just another thought.

And remember, there is "no replacement for displacement", don't you just love the sound of a big block in the morning? Smells like....victory!

Good luck.

[Dior55]

I believe my timing is set to about 36 degrees. I haven't checked it in a year or so, so my mind is fuzzy on this.

Going under 50/50 is not going to harm your engine. Running pure water would, of course, but if you keep it to about 10 - 15% you should have nothing to worry about, and you'll see an incredible improvement in cooling abilities!

Frank the mention of air in the system deserves investigation. I used a remote filler T on my upper hose to make sure I was "burping" the system (In fact, I removed my entire rad cap from the radiator and had the opening welded shut). With the low clearances a BB has inside a Cobra compartment, you have to think about certain things that "mere mortals" never have to concern themselves with!