It's alive! MPFI meets MSD and 460 survives!

Tom Wells · #1 (**permalink**) 02-09-2003, 02:41 PM

It's working! Try here:

link to message

Specially for BiB: please look! It may help you if you have an MSD box!

Tom

Naja · #2 (**permalink**) 02-09-2003, 07:25 PM

Tom -
Glad to hear things are running (finally).
I'll make you the same offer I gave to Steven (BiB): I've got my ECU tables where I want them. I've made an Excel spreadsheet of my VE, Timing and Air/Fuel Ratio tables. They might be a good starting point (or, at least a point of comparison).
If you would like me to e-mail the spreadsheet(s) to you, let me know. I don't know what kind of manifold you have, but Steven has a Torker II, like me, so I figure my tables might be close to what he will eventually end up with.
I've got an e-mail of "@bellatlantic.net" for you, so let me know if you would like me to send it to you.
Regards,
Frank Newman
Naja

Tom Wells · #3 (**permalink**) 02-10-2003, 05:58 PM

Hi Frank,

Sounds great - that's my e-mail.

What size injectors are you using?

Tom

Back in Black · #4 (**permalink**) 02-10-2003, 07:07 PM

Hey, I saved the comments on the other site for my EFI reference. I have 65 lb injectors coming to replace the 36 lb'ers the dorks at Holley recommended

Holley's customer service is more typical of a government agency than a performance parts manufacturer.

Having said that, I would love to get tables.. Frank, shoot them to the e-mail addy you have now , for me. And many thanks !

I just installed STS turbo baffles tonite, in my sidepipes. Here's how they look ready to drop/bolt in:

Naja · #5 (**permalink**) 02-10-2003, 07:57 PM

Tom -
Like Steven indicated, I had specified for me 65 lb. injectors. When sizing them, we were hoping for up to 650 hp and 700 ft-lbs., but the Torker II (which I noticed that you have from an old thread) is way undersized for a significantly stroked BB (even with some work done to it). After thinking about my (apparent) under-performance at the dyno, we realized that the manifold was the major culprit. (I got 491 hp and 548 fp, but who's complaining). 48 lb. injectors might work for my current application, since, I suspect, that they would run near 80% DC (duty cycle) at max performance. My 65 lb. injectors log at 60% DC at max performance, but I am only getting 500 hp instead of the expected 650. If I suddenly become rich and get a set of those new 58mm TWM throttle bodies, then, the 65 pounders will be needed!
I'll shot you both the Excel file.
(About the only thing that I am tweeking with is the cold start parts of the program. Since you only get 1 try at it per day, it goes pretty slow. Also, I am not entirely sure which correction direction helps, in certain cases. I don't think that the screens on my program - CCom for SpeedPro - would be similar to what you may have for starting and idling aspects. I do think that the 3 spreadsheets that I will send you are quite common to any program. A couple of tuners that I have talked to indicate that the numbers are similar - surely the timing and A/F ratios will
be).
The only running problems that I have encountered since I felt that I was 'fully' tuned has been some backfiring on deceleration (to be expected, and, I would rather have it rich than lean in areas of transient operation of the program ), and, on occasion, a backfire or total short drop off in engine revving on a moderate to hard acceleration while making a turn (and it may be only left turns).
Another curious thing that I have had since the beginning, my left EGT is 150 to 250 degrees lower than the right EGT. I haven't changed the right thermocouple to other cylinders, but I have changed to left one to the highest reading cylinder, since the right EGT is higher than the left, and, from the dyno data, the cylinder for the right EGT was the hottest on the right side. My ECU O2 sensor is on the right collector (at a very precisely measured point - which is supposedly quite critical for accurate functioning of the ECU), but I have a separate O2 sensor on the left collector that reads out on an analog gauge. Strange thing is that the left reads more lean than the right even though the EGT is lower. Go figure. My right EGT is about 1450 while running. That is about the max it should be, but my setup guru felt OK with it. The left one is about 1250, which is about what the target should be.
Any ideas about these situations? I may end up getting the module where you can individually tune each injector.
Regards,
Frank

petek · #6 (**permalink**) 02-10-2003, 08:12 PM

Neat "mufflers"... how do those auger pipes sound (sure look neat)!

Back in Black · #7 (**permalink**) 02-10-2003, 09:14 PM

Will let you know tommorrow.. it was cold tonite, and my LeCarra steering wheel is not installed, awaiting a custom adaptor I am making for it...so I could not back her out tonite to try them out. I hear they are throaty and not too loud, but we will know soon

HighPlainsDrifter · #8 (**permalink**) 02-11-2003, 09:24 PM

Hi,
I think you have a header leak, that will cause the lower reading and part of the backfire. I use the solid copper exhaust gaskets with copper sealer, totally ended my backfire. Hope this helps.
Perry.

Naja · #9 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 07:01 PM

Perry -
Thanx for the comment. I'll look a little closer, but I haven't seen any evidence of little carbon trails around the area of the ports. I am using a fairly think gasket that is made of carbon fiber (I think). The guy that made them for me says they last a long, long time.
Anything else that you might suggest?
Regards,
Frank N.

Back in Black · #10 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 09:04 PM

And everyone else.. I fired her up yesterday in the garage... sounds great, nice deep rumble with a nice thrushy sound... and not too loud either.. but loud ENOUGH to make me

Tom Wells · #11 (**permalink**) 02-13-2003, 04:36 AM

Hi Frank,

Your "die off" may be the fuel pickup being uncovered?

I had to modify my gas tank to install a 3/4" ID pickup at the bottom center and make sure the inlet line was 1/2" or better - ended up using AN-10 from the tank to the inlet filter and then to the fuel pump inlet. The tank also has some anti-slosh baffling; I guess a good fuel cell would be better.

Apparently us EFI users get to trade "fuel bowl slosh" for "gas tank slosh"

I use an Aeromotive pump and dual filter setup: 100 micron inlet and 10 micron outlet. Aeromotive told me it is critical not to cause uncovering of the pickup and to avoid cavitation due to too small a pickup, inlet filter or pump inlet line. Their pump apparently has amazing suction ("bowling ball through a garden hose" ?

) and if it runs dry it'll burn up...

Well, off to reinstall the gas tank - leak

being rewelded - and do some more tuning!

Regards,

Tom

Naja · #12 (**permalink**) 02-13-2003, 06:50 PM

Tom -
Thanx for the comment. I have the aeromotive pump, too, with 1/2 inch line, except my pickup is in the front, but my fuel cell slopes forward and it is supposed to have baffling (it was custom made and I never actually saw the inside). (It has a back-flow preventer and all of that neat stuff, so I assume he did the baffles like he said he would. 23 gal.).
I know that I have been "low" on fuel recently (1/4 tank), so that raises a good point. If there is momentary cavitation, the pressure would drop to near zero until the pump received fuel because of the deceleration. I've got a fuel pressure gauge (it's switchable with the oil pressure and I usually leave it on the oil pressure). I'll have to try it when my tank is low, again, and watch the fuel pressure.

Perry -
I had it on a rack today, but didn't have the presence of mind to take a good look at the header-exhaust port interface area. Hopefully I'll remember when it is on a rack, again, on Tuesday.

Regards,
Frank N.

HighPlainsDrifter · #13 (**permalink**) 02-14-2003, 12:08 PM

Frank,
Mine was leaking under the header flange, black streaks onto block,could only see from under the car. I also put urethane sway bar links from the front of the head to the frame, this is my fix for the motor lifting up on the drivers side under acceleration. I didn't want solid motor mounts.
Perry.

wizard · #14 (**permalink**) 02-17-2003, 06:56 PM

West Coast Owner trying to reach BiB.

Can you email me since I can't you, OR we can discuss a couple of questions I have here. ( I've had it with Vern.)

The Wiz

jdean · #15 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 11:01 AM

Hey Tom,

Have you had a chance to get meaningful MPG numbers since the EFI has been sorted out? Just curious about difference vs. Carb.

John

Tom Wells · #16 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 01:37 PM

Hello John,

Alas, weather prevents doing anything on the roads except plowing

We had it out for a short run - about 25 miles - until two feet of snow made us quit doing that.

I did get a bit of idle level tuning done today. Tomorrow thru the weekend promises to be more s%*&&y weather here...

Maybe it's time to move South?

Tom

jdean · #17 (**permalink**) 02-21-2003, 06:34 PM

Tom,

Yes, I was on the East Coast last week. Unbelievable snow buildup. Very Cobra-unfriendly situation. Here in Texas the weather has been cold and rainy this week. Oh well, spring is on the way.

I saw some of your info on the 385 forum as well. No doubt I will end up with EFI, but will start with the Torker II with a carb. Since I am still building, I am fighting the constant urge to spend time/money on upgrades even before it is done. I'll bet everyone can relate to that!

John