[Jamo]

Scott...right on the money. I deal with that bullsh!t every day when it reaches the grievance level.

Steve...unless and until you actually get firsthand experience in dealing with a union on an the everyday level...please, stop pulling crap out of the air. Union rules inhibit quality and efficiency by definition. When no union is present (like with your heralded Japanese companies), management and employees can meet together regularly over coffee or lunch and work out the best methodology for approaching a task and obtaining the goal.

Hard to do that when a union requires notice and discussion before negotiations which might result in a management-employee lunch meeting a decade or two down the road pursuant to an agreed-upon agenda which is voted on by the international committee beforehand and subject to grievance and arbitration should a non-agenda item be discussed...

Really...this is not a subject one can BS his way through just for discussion's sake.