Fiberglass or Aluminium body - Page 3

tkb289 · #41 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonti

@all: thank you for your opinions - you made it very easy for me

I'm gonna see an ERA, SPF and a Kirkham on Friday, will talk to owners here in Switzerland (ERA and SPF) and hopefully I know more then.
The most important thing on this side of the pond is how to get it licenced and driven legally!
But - at this time I'm a bit more on the "iron-side". Hhmmm, I never had a budget for cars till now. Think I have to make one this time!

Peter,

Good luck with looking at cars later this week and talking with the owners. You probably already know this, but here are some suggestions when looking:

- If it's Ok with the owners, take a few photos of the cars for your reference, inside and out along with the motors, that may prove useful later on in your decision making process.

- Ask for a test sit and see how the car 'fits' you and last but not least, see if you can get a test ride, it should prove to be both fun and informative!

- Another piece of information is to ask what they like about their car and what they don't like, this might help as well.

Keep us posted.

- Tim

fonti · #42 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 10:23 AM

Wow - what a day!
First I went to a car dealer who is specialised in oldtimers and who is registering an ERA right now. Nice car...but he told me that aluminium is always better, well we'll seee later on that.
The ERA is very nicely made, the driving position is comfortable for me 6'2"...
Then in the afternoon I was at AMS, they are kind of a Superformance and Cobra dealer for Switzerland. Man - it is a difference between Superformance/ERA and Kirkham/Shelby aluminium Body. I mean, I don't have a Cobra and don't want to "judge". The fiberglass Cobras look absolutely great but for me it's gonna be aluminium if possible. (availability and financial possibilities!) The aluminium felt more like a car, it's hard to describe...
Now I called the guy in Californa for the Kirkham who is in Cobracountry for 77500 - but it's already sold to a French guy in Florida. (it's not titled correctly in CA, so he makes that in Florida and gets the car to France later).
Conclusion:
1. It's possible to register aluminium cars "easily" with the right papers and Superformance/ERA is also possible, but much harder and "tricky"...
2. It's gonna be aluminium for me with a 427...
3. a new one is much too expensive for me, so I'm looking for a used Kirkham or Shelby, and
4. I also will check with Kirkham / UK
If someone knows about a nice aluminium Cobra...thanks for an information! She should be mechanically very good, not a trailer queen, I'm driving the cars!!
thank you for your help, Peter

REAL 1 · #43 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 10:29 AM

Spread in price between a nice used KMP and a nice aluminium Shelby Cobra approximately $50K depending on car and equipment.

RodKnock · #44 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Spread in price between a nice used KMP and a nice aluminium Shelby Cobra approximately $50K depending on car and equipment.

Out of curiosity, the Shelby is painted for that $50K premium, correct?

The Kirkham roller is $57K plus the brushed or polished finish ($8-10K). Just trying to compare, because $50K is a lot of money, especially since Kirkham sells their bodies to Shelby.

I don't think that there was a $50K price difference, when I bought, but my memory fades.

Rickd · #45 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 10:41 AM

Fonti - outstanding decision. I highly recommend that you focus on a used Kirkham - best bang for your money for a driver. I also recommend that you consider putting a "WANTED TO BUY - KIRKHAM 427 COBRA" ad in Cobra Country. You never know how many people are THINKING about selling their car but don't like the idea of the process, or are unsure if they will find a buyer. You might just end up finding the person who is "sitting on the fence" thinking about it - and help the seller with a 'cleaner process'. Good luck!!

patrickt · #46 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickd

Fonti - outstanding decision. I highly recommend that you focus on a used Kirkham - best bang for your money for a driver. I also recommend that you consider putting a "WANTED TO BUY - KIRKHAM 427 COBRA" ad in Cobra Country. You never know how many people are THINKING about selling their car but don't like the idea of the process, or are unsure if they will find a buyer. You might just end up finding the person who is "sitting on the fence" thinking about it - and help the seller with a 'clearner process'. Good luck!!

Absolutely correct. Place an ad, mention that you are paying cash, and that you are looking for Kirkham or alum CSX and will take immediate delivery. You will undoubtedly get a lot of very nice responses.

RodKnock · #47 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 10:51 AM

Rick has an excellent idea.

But, I would guess that a used aluminun CSX will be at least $100K, if not much much more. The Kirkhams are more likely to be sold for the $75-90K +/- range, depending on the quality and options.

fonti · #48 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 11:36 AM

Thanks, I will do that - already asked Curt from Cobra Country.
Where would you post a "Wanted ad" here on the forum? General discussion?

HI Cobra · #49 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 11:39 AM

There are two Kirkhams still active in Cobra Country - one back in June for
$97.5k and a more recent one for $100k that has the vintage side oiler.
Both are way north of $75k but are nice.

franklin · #50 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Aluminum dents. Fiberglass crackes and is forever curing causing possible paint issues later. Paint on both scratches. Small dings are easy to fix on aluminum. Call the Dent Wizard. They fixed a few dings on mine over the years. No problem.

An aluminum car just feels different to me. It is more "authentic" for sure. As between a SPF and a KMP, no contest....hands down KMP for a 100000000 reasons. SPF are nice cars but not in the same league as a KMP.

Besides you said your a steel/metal guy or whatever.

Period. Game over.

I agree!!!

RodKnock · #51 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HI Cobra

There are two Kirkhams still active in Cobra Country - one back in June for $97.5k and a more recent one for $100k that has the vintage side oiler. Both are way north of $75k but are nice.

But prices tend to be negotiable.

That is why I gave a range.

JMHO, and I know many will disagree, but I would prefer the modern all-aluminum block engine over the vintage sideoiler. In my pea brain, I would be thinking "sell iron, buy aluminum."

fonti · #52 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

JMHO, and I know many will disagree, but I would prefer the modern all-aluminum block engine over the vintage sideoiler. In my pea brain, I would be thinking "sell iron, buy aluminum."

is this the engine you are talking about? How about reliability? Heat? Huge power...

Shelby aluminum block [606 horsepower/605 ft.lbs. torque; idles at 900 rpm]; assembled and fine-tuned by Keith Craft, Inc. with painstaking attention to detail and employing only the finest componentry]. Among the full complement of premium parts and components under the hood:

billet aluminum engine mounts
Scat 4.250 crankshaft & H-beam rods
custom-grind hydraulic roller camshaft
KCR Edelbrock CNC cylinder heads
T&D shaft-mount roller rockers
Shelby front cover
Shelby water pump & Shelby intake
black Shelby valve covers
powder-coated oval air cleaner
MSD distributor/ignition system (including manual timing accessible from your driver's seat)
Kirkham aluminum pulleys
complete Kirkham oil cooler system, billet coolant tank
polished radiator hoses

that's the one who is in Ontario, Canada... I know that you never have too much power, but I'd rather have a painless engine.

P13Cobras · #53 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 12:32 PM

I agree that it sounds like a used Kirkham would be the way for you to go. As far as the engine I wouldnt shy away from an iron block/aluminum heads if you want to be more modern and save some weight. I'm pretty sure the AL blocks are limited to hyd lifters because of expansion, so that is something to consider. Lets hope AT Francis/ Bluethunder can produce his iron block some day soon. He did some major re-engineering on the oiling system and it sounds like it will be a "killer" block if/when it makes it to market. The last I spoke to him there was absolutely no ETA.

tkb289 · #54 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 12:56 PM

Peter,
You have made a lot of progress in a short amount of time narrowing down what you are looking for. Sounds like a Kirkham is the right way for you to go ... And between Cobra Country and Club Cobra you should be able to find just what you want. Very cool!!
- Tim

Rickd · #55 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 12:59 PM

Fonti, Keith Craft has just received a brand new polished aluminum Kirkham. He is doing some turnkey projects on spec using Kirkham cobras. You should contact him to see what he can offer. He also had his own car for sale recently (I believe it was a brushed aluminum Kirkham). He is one of the most reputable engine builders in the business. Kirkham uses a lot of his motors in turn key cars for customers. (I have one of his 331 strokers in my FIA). Good luck.

fonti · #56 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 01:22 PM

@Tim, Rickd, Patrickt and the ones I forgot here: yeah, it's going faster than expected...and Kirkham is great quality! The 2 for 77.5 and 82.5 are gone - there are some for 95k and "real" Shelbys for 105k: is the registration in the "Shelby book" worth the higher price?
Just to let you know: I have to ship it over and pay import taxes (around 12k total) and then another 15k to "adapt" the Cobra to our laws and go through the whole registration process...

I understand that Keith Craft is a very talented and "famous" engine guy. Are his aluminium blocks with around 600 HP reliable? Do they idle under 1000 RPM's? Any heat issues? Would you buy a used one? (you never know how the previous owner treated the engine!)

A lot of questions, I know - I appreciate your support!

Peter

RodKnock · #57 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonti

@Tim, Rickd, Patrickt and the ones I forgot here: yeah, it's going faster than expected...and Kirkham is great quality! The 2 for 77.5 and 82.5 are gone - there are some for 95k and "real" Shelbys for 105k: is the registration in the "Shelby book" worth the higher price?
Just to let you know: I have to ship it over and pay import taxes (around 12k total) and then another 15k to "adapt" the Cobra to our laws and go through the whole registration process...

I understand that Keith Craft is a very talented and "famous" engine guy. Are his aluminium blocks with around 600 HP reliable? Do they idle under 1000 RPM's? Any heat issues? Would you buy a used one? (you never know how the previous owner treated the engine!)

A lot of questions, I know - I appreciate your support!

Peter

Holy tamale. That's alot of taxes and import nonsense.

Peter, I have a 600+ HP all aluminum engine and it idles great right around a 1,000 RPM. No more heat issues than any others, plus the aluminum dissipates heat faster, which technically loses HP, but that doesn't matter. Yes, 600 HP is very reliable (knock on wood), though don't expect a Lexus. Many others here will agree. Modern technology such as better rocker arm systems, block oiling, heads, etc.

Oh, BTW, Kirkhams are listed in the SAAC World Registry too. They're not a replica, but then, that's another thread from a few weeks ago.

madmaxx · #58 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 02:31 PM

I thought aluminium was a challenge to keep from oxidizing? Cant get wet, have to be cleaned with windex etc? If I got aluminium and the aforementioned is true it would have to be painted.

Please remeber the people on this forum are fanatics, you pull up a brushed aluminium cobra, the participants on this forum would kill for it, but the other 99.5% of the population will think a painted cobra be it fiberglass or aluminium is much much nicer.

RodKnock · #59 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I thought aluminium was a challenge to keep from oxidizing? Cant get wet, have to be cleaned with windex etc? If I got aluminium and the aforementioned is true it would have to be painted.

Please remeber the people on this forum are fanatics, you pull up a brushed aluminium cobra, the participants on this forum would kill for it, but the other 99.5% of the population will think a painted cobra be it fiberglass or aluminium is much much nicer.

No challenge at all to keep it from oxidizing, but then my car is only a couple years old, garaged and covered. I've literally almost done nothing and it still looks great. I don't have the brushed finish though, I have the polished finish.

99.99% of the population has never seen a fully polished aluminum Cobra and the crowds at the few small shows (and weekend coffee runs) that I've attended reflect that.

I don't know what the percentage is when it comes to the population preferring a "bare naked lady" (BNL) versus a painted car, but I'd sure like to take that bet at 99.5% preferring paint.

DanEC · #60 (**permalink**) 12-04-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P13Cobras

I'm pretty sure the AL blocks are limited to hyd lifters because of expansion, so that is something to consider. .

Is this a problem unique to Ford? Hasn't been a problem for 20 years with my aluminum head, solid cam, L-88 in my old Vette. The valves just lash differently than with iron heads.