Right to Repair Bill Proposed! LOVELY!

[Rare Iron]

This ought to get your blood boiling!!! What's next?
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Link: http://www.truckpartsandservice.com/...to-u-s-senate/

Article: (note - Barbara Boxer is leading this campaign)

Right to Repair bill introduced into U.S. Senate
March, 2010

U.S. Sens. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) on Thursday, March 25, introduced the Motor Vehicle Owners’ Right to Repair Act into the U.S. Senate. The U.S. House of Representatives version of the bill (H.R. 2057) was introduced by U.S. Reps. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.), Anna Eshoo (D-Calif.) and George Miller (D-Calif.) and currently has 56 cosponsors.

The Right to Repair Act would require that car companies provide full access at a reasonable cost to all service information, tools, computer codes and safety-related bulletins needed to repair motor vehicles, thus leveling the playing field between dealerships and independent repair shops. The legislation further provides car companies with strong protections for their trade secrets, only requiring them to make available the same diagnostic and repair information they provide their franchised dealers.

“By introducing this legislation, Senators Boxer and Brownback have taken important action to ensure that American car owners will continue to have access to a competitive auto repair marketplace, thus ensuring that repair costs don’t price vehicle ownership above the heads of many Americans,” says Kathleen Schmatz, president and chief executive officer of the Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association. “This bill keeps motorists in the driver’s seat by making sure that they, and not the vehicle manufacturers, have the final say on where a car is taken for service.”

“The Right to Repair Act is all about consumer choice, ensuring consumers have the right to choose where and by whom they have their vehicles repaired,” says Ray Pohlman, president of the Coalition for Auto Repair Equality. “Failure to pass this bill could mean that car owners are held hostage by the car companies, forced to return to the dealership even after the vehicle is out of warranty.”

[SunDude]

Why do you object to this? Do you work for an automaker?

(We've already been around this maypole up here in Canada...)

[Rare Iron]

Originally Posted by SunDude

Why do you object to this? Do you work for an automaker?

(We've already been around this maypole up here in Canada...)

Government control in a "free enterprise" system. This is a BAD path, if you don't understand, I can't explain it to you.

[Black Mamba]

This may be enough of a reason

Posted yesterday:

I bought a new SPF from Keith Craft last week, SPF chassis 2895. SPF sold the roller to dealer Jim Creel in January 2009, Jim sold the roller to Keith two or three months ago, and Keith put in a small block 427 and tranny. I love the car. The engine performance in particular is breathtaking. I bought the car new, with less than 80 miles, all of which Keith put on the car after engine installation, making sure everything was perfect. Keith is a real talent and has been a delight to work with. Did I mention? The engine is bad ass (Dyno'ed 580 horsepower, 590 torque).

The outside driver's side mirror was mounted by SPF improperly. From the driver's seat, it reflects the pavement, and even when I loosen the screw and move the mirror up as far as it will go, it still aims too low. Not a big deal, but I figured, after paying $55,000 for a new car, I should get a mirror that works. It needs to be remounted to be functional. And, while this is a small issue, I want the comfort of knowing that SPF will take care of defects in the roller that it built.

So, I called SPF Friday of last week, spoke with Michael, said I had a minor warranty problem, described the mirror issue, and asked what I needed to do to get it resolved. Michael said I had no warranty, that SPF extends a twelve month warranty, and that it begins to run from the date the car is delivered to the dealer (in this case, January 2009), not the date the car is sold to the customer. I told him that seemed wrong and asked: So if you sell a car to a dealer who has it in inventory for twelve months and then sells it to a buyer, are you saying the buyer has no warranty? He said, Yes.

The seems absolutely wrong to me. If Ford sells a car to a dealer, who then later sells it to a customer, the warranty runs from the date of the sale to the customer, not from the date of the Ford sale to the dealer. Michael's position also seems inconsistent with the SPF written warranty that I received with this car, which says: "This warranty begins on the date that the vehicle is delivered to buyer or put into service by the seller as a demonstrator."

Again, I like the car. And the mirror is small ball stuff. But this is a bad start to a new relationship. I did my due diligence. All indications are that SPF has a good reputation. But Michael's position on the warranty issue is wrong. I want to like these people, to trust them, and to have confidence that they will stand behind their product and work. This puts a bad taste in mouth at the start of what I hope will be a long relationship.

Has anyone else tussled with SPF on this issue? Is SPF right and I am just missing something? Should I just forget about my relationship with SPF, pay for any repairs/adjustments for defects in the roller, and move on?

[DanEC]

Is your SPF blue? I saw a blue one in Keith Crafts shop on the lift when I was there about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Your rigt they are nice people.

[SunDude]

From a consumer point of view, it's hard to see anything wrong with right-to-repair laws. Basically what they achieve is to give consumers more choice and therefore lower prices on auto repairs. How? By giving independent mechanics shops access to the motor vehicle data they need to properly diagnose and fix problems with today's modern cars.

From an automaker or dealer point of view, right-to-repair is a competitive threat to their income and profits as customers can easily go somewhere other than the dealer's service department for repair work. They also worry that some of the technical data from their vehicles could get into the hands of competitors, and claim that independent shops don't have the training or equipment to properly fix their cars even with the technical data.


Rare Iron, do you really think this signals a dramatic new incursion on your freedom? Does anyone think that the auto industry has been free from government intervention up until now?

[Cashburn]

Well it looks to open up the industry, but maybe it's just me reading it

[Black Mamba]

I see it as taking responsibility for the product you represent. I think a happy or satisfied customer will result in return business, be it a dealer or after market repair facility.

[Rare Iron]

This is the way I read it. Say you are a garage door installer & repairman, & you have all the latest tricks, technology, & experience that sets you apart from all the other service people in your area - you make a good living at it because you are so good. Now the government steps in & says you have an unfair advantage & need to share your knowledge, tricks, tools, & experience with all the others that do the same thing in your area. Maybe you are a factory guy that works for the manufacturer & you are better because you have the special tools & service manuals, plus you know your product better than anyone else. The government can step in & dictate to you that you must enable your competitors to compete with you on an even keel, & you must supply them with the means?

No matter what spin you put on this, it's plain wrong! If this bill comes to be, it will also affect the big truck dealers (Peterbilt, Kenworth, Freightliner, etc.) & I'll tell you firsthand, there is LOTS of proprietary technology & repair equipment with those guys. This is one step away from abolishing PATENTS on products - think about it.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Competition and the consumer win!

[Gunner]

RI, I don't think you have the right take on this. If the bill was to force automakers to disclose design, manufacturing or R&D information, you'd have a point.

Forcing them to disclose all necessary information for any qualified individual to repair a vehicle fully owned (or at least nominally owned) by an individual is another thing entirely.

If you disagree, answer this: At what point does a manufacturer have the right to tell me I *cannot* repair a faulty component on a car I bought from them and own lock, stock and four-barrel? In between that point and the point of full disclosure of repair information is a point at which the manufacturer gets to say, "Too bad, I won't give you the repair information (tolerances, codes, part numbers, etc.)" - and when is that okay?

Nah. You're confusing trade secrets and free enterprise with reasonable consumer protection. At a minimum, manufacturers should be required to disclose that a buyer's shiny new Vroomy 3000 *cannot* be repaired by anyone but a factory repair facility. Bet that would make sales zoom.

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by Rare Iron

This is the way I read it. Say you are a garage door installer & repairman, & you have all the latest tricks, technology, & experience that sets you apart from all the other service people in your area - you make a good living at it because you are so good. Now the government steps in & says you have an unfair advantage & need to share your knowledge, tricks, tools, & experience with all the others that do the same thing in your area. Maybe you are a factory guy that works for the manufacturer & you are better because you have the special tools & service manuals, plus you know your product better than anyone else. The government can step in & dictate to you that you must enable your competitors to compete with you on an even keel, & you must supply them with the means?

No matter what spin you put on this, it's plain wrong! If this bill comes to be, it will also affect the big truck dealers (Peterbilt, Kenworth, Freightliner, etc.) & I'll tell you firsthand, there is LOTS of proprietary technology & repair equipment with those guys. This is one step away from abolishing PATENTS on products - think about it.

I think that you may be misreading it, if this is the complete text of the legislation. Using your example it didn't appear to me from what was posted that it would affect any "tricks" of the trade that you referenced. I know I have many,many tricks I have accumlated over 40+ years and freely share them...with whom I choose. they would have a tough time making me share anything that I don't wish to. I believe it is mainly aimed at repair info, as a Patent holder , I don't see how that would impact anything as far as patents go.
My interpretation,and I am extremely constitutional, is that it would prevent manufacturers of any item from being able to withhold info anyone that are not dealers. Since very few cars wind up in dealers after a year or so I can see where there may be an adjustment for a couple year period, but the problem I see is that the dealers themselves put sales ahead of service, so they need to clean up their act before they could attribute any loss of revenue on this legislation.
Now, from a purely observational point, I would think there are already some laws in effect that would cover this. It reminds me of the girl that hit a bicyclist(locally) while she was downloading ringtones... the police didn't even ticket her because there was no law that addressed that. I seemed to think wreckless driving would have been one. It seems to describe wreckless driving to a T.
I don't believe they can force any company to release the info for free and they may have a charge for some of that info. But if you are making money off of it then you should be willing to pay. Again, at some point the length of time that they can charge for that info should have a determined period, just like a Patent. Recall and update info is pretty easy to get in this area and I don't know how this would alter that.

[Rare Iron]

Well, here's more about this subject already going on in MASS: http://www.wickedlocal.com/danvers/n...to-Repair-bill

Also, here's a thread I started on corvetteforum.com on this same subject. Their points of view are very different than the viewpoints here so far: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/poli...o-repairs.html

I see this as more government control that is eroding our free enterprise system & spreading the wealth that many have earned for themselves. It's always been a cat & mouse game with the OE's & aftermarket repair & parts businesses. I like the fact that I can find & go to a mom & pop repair shop for technical repairs on a late model & save money, but for our federal government to forceably step in & make it law that proprietary technologies are revealed from the technology holder is just wrong in my book. I sure hope Boeing, MacDonell Douglas, & General Dynamics aren't going to be subject to this!

[Cashburn]

I am going to quote directly from your secondary link here since I read it:

After all, the committee included language in the bill aimed at preventing the release of any trade secrets. That section is an attempt to address concerns raised by the auto manufacturers, who argue that the aftermarket parts companies simply want to use the legislation to get access to patented information and reverse engineer auto parts.

[Excaliber]

I first started wrenching as a professional in 1969, eventually became ASE certified when that came around. I've worked at many different dealerships and a number of "Joe's Garage". Having seen both sides of the issue I can't for the life of me figure out how this is seen as "more Government control". Quite the opposite in fact, power to the people, this gives "Joe" a chance to compete in the market, which he has often been denied by the manufacturers.

It's up to "Joe" if he wants to invest 10's of thousands of dollars on special tools and diagnostic equipement, as it should be. As it should have been years and years ago, it's about time someone addressed this, long overdue.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Rare Iron

I see this as more government control that is eroding our free enterprise system & spreading the wealth that many have earned for themselves.

Careful.

Don't turn an automotive topic political, or we will help you spend more time on the Corvette forum.

thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator

[Rare Iron]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I first started wrenching as a professional in 1969, eventually became ASE certified when that came around. I've worked at many different dealerships and a number of "Joe's Garage". Having seen both sides of the issue I can't for the life of me figure out how this is seen as "more Government control". Quite the opposite in fact, power to the people, this gives "Joe" a chance to compete in the market, which he has often been denied by the manufacturers.

It's up to "Joe" if he wants to invest 10's of thousands of dollars on special tools and diagnostic equipement, as it should be. As it should have been years and years ago, it's about time someone addressed this, long overdue.

Would you feel the same if you made your living at a Ford dealership as a tech? Believe me, I see the other side of the issue too. I hate having to go to a dealership & pay (extra high cost) for repairs or buy OE replacement parts that are unavailable in the aftermarket. But in spite of all this, I know plenty of independent repair shop mechanics that can repair or diagnose late model problems as well as dealer techs, for much less cost. I don't know - this just all reminds me of our POTUS ousting Waggoner from GM & other heavy-handed government measures of late. This kind of government control just does not sit well with me. Maybe I'm alone feeling this way???

[Rare Iron]

Originally Posted by computerworks

Careful.

Don't turn an automotive topic political, or we will help you spend more time on the Corvette forum.

thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator

Sorry - not really trying to turn this political, but there is a LOT of politics creeping into our everyday lives lately (that shouldn't have to)! This topic I felt would really be of interest to people like us.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Rare Iron

Sorry - not really trying to turn this political, but there is a LOT of politics creeping into our everyday lives lately (that shouldn't have to)! This topic I felt would really be of interest to people like us.

It absolutely is an interesting topic. We discourage political creep here.

[Ralphy]

I guess in simple terms your discussing a monopoly with auto repair. Maybe every thing made should be that way. They could custom make fasteners, all different. No metric no SAE's. GM or Toyota bolts and nuts! Then they can all make special light bulbs. Tires all would be different. Want a new key for your house, no Home Depot, call Schlage.

Hope you get the point.